Is this magic item priced correctly?

[Senko]

I don't normally make custom items but I'm wanting to make a collar for my imaginary familliar (figment is so fun). Anyway I want the collar to allow it to do 2 things (1) talk to anyone not just me and (2) use telekinesis at will (5lbs is too little and there's nothing between mage hand and telekinesis) so it can interact with things without me giving her hands or tentacles. So can someone who know's more about magic item creation just look over my calculations and let me know if I'm missing something (I think I am)?

Base Item: Circlet of Speaking 2,400 GP.
Telekinesis at will: Spell Level (5) x Caster Level (9) x 2,000 GP = 90,000
Second Ability: x1.5 cost.
Total Cost: (2,400 + 90,000) x 1.5 = 138,600GP (70k to make)

The reason I think I'm missing something on this is that hand of the mage (mage hand at will) by this system it should be 1,000 GP (0.5 spell level x 1 caster level x 2000GP). However its price is 900 and cost is 450. Now obviously that's the difference between buying and making the item but even buying is 10% cheaper than it should be which for my famailiar collar is 13 thousand gold, 7 thousand if making.

Might be cheaper to make up an improved version of mage hand that does 5lbs per level. I mean sure the existing version does cover most general use items but still I'd like to get it to the point she can at least pick up 50' of rope and that's not considering the rules lawyer who'll complain mage hand only works if you point a finger at an object and cats don't have fingers. Base telekinesis though is 225lbs which is well above what I'd like (40-60lbs). However there's the issue of fine control mage hand isn't really suited to tying knots, holding multiple objects at once (a book that your writing in) or the like.

EDIT
I'm obviously missing something as a ring of telekinesis exists activate on command (I assume the difference to at will is you need to say "SOMETHING" to activate it rather than just willing it) and it costs 75,000 GP. So there's a discount I'm missing somewhere.

[Lady Asharah]

First of all, pre-made magic items often defy rules for custom magic items. That is not accidental. Similarly, when making a custom magic item you are in fact expected to try and find a similar item first.

With that in mind, Circlet of speaking fits your first requirement almost to the T (you need to make it as custom item to go on neck instead of headband)

And then you literally have Ring of Telekinesis which works at will on command for 37500gp to craft.

So you have a 2400gp item and a 37500gp item you are trying to combine.
Start with the Ring of Telekinesis (order of operation matters) for 37500gp to craft, then add the Circlet of Speaking enchantment on top of it for 3600gp (1.5x the base cost).

Now you have an item that grants the wearer both telekinesis on command and an ability to speak one language for 41100gp to craft altogether.

Your DM should then decide what it would cost to change the slots of those items (from ring and headband to neck) but it shouldn't be too much especially since it's an item for a familiar.

In fact, you can argue that you can apply the 30% discount when you make the item "familiar only". This would prevent a PC from picking up the item and using telekinesis whenever they feel like it and the familiar isn't cooperating.

As for difference between on command and at will... there isn't one because it's two separate things. At will means you can use it as often as you like, while on command means you need to spend a standard action to activate it (whether by concentrating or speaking a command word if there is one)

[ErichAD]

Use the deft digits spell as your advanced mage hand for pricing. It does what you want, though I assume you would rather not have the glove.

[Senko]

Hmmm I forgot about those discounts, I'd probably grab that just to ensure someone doesn't nick her collar for their own use.

Thanks for the help so I'm looking at a little under 30 thousand that's a lot more affordable.

Deft Digits is a nogo as it specifies it uses your strength score and her strength even at 20th level would be 4.

[Azothath]

Has your imaginary figment familiar been able to use magic items or mundane items in the game?

There are magic item slots for familiars and animals. Changing magic item slots should carry a cost but RAW doesn't give a specific number.

It might be cheaper to just do hand of the mage. Wimpy but cost effective to test the waters with your GM in play.

Multiple disimilar powers in an item get a cost multiplier and sometimes must be slotless(*2) particularly with unlimited use. It's a balancing act with RAW item prices as guidelines.

[Senko]

Azothath wrote:

Has your imaginary figment familiar been able to use magic items or mundane items in the game?

There are magic item slots for familiars and animals. Changing magic item slots should carry a cost but RAW doesn't give a specific number.

It might be cheaper to just do hand of the mage. Wimpy but cost effective to test the waters with your GM in play.

Multiple disimilar powers in an item get a cost multiplier and sometimes must be slotless(*2) particularly with unlimited use. It's a balancing act with RAW item prices as guidelines.

Yes I'd need GM approval beforehand I don't see them having a problem with the speaking part. The telekinesis is more iffy but they've approved figment which will allow hands/tentalces so I think they'll be ok with the familiar having the ability to manipulate things. They had her eaten by a pack of wargs afterall. If they're going to target her like that I figure they'll let me take items.

[OmniMage]

You could try pricing the spells at different levels than they actually are. Try to imagine a weaker or stronger version of the spell you want to use. Metamagic feats exist to modify spells, so you could use similar principles to make the spell stronger or weaker for the magic item. Alternatively, you could imagine that you are doing spell research, but instead of making a complete spell, you are only developing it enough to be used to make a magic item.

5 (Spell Level) * 9 (Caster Level) * 2000 gp = 90000 gp
4 (Spell Level) * 7 (Caster Level) * 2000 gp = 56000 gp
3 (Spell Level) * 5 (Caster Level) * 2000 gp = 30000 gp
2 (Spell Level) * 3 (Caster Level) * 2000 gp = 12000 gp
1 (Spell Level) * 1 (Caster Level) * 2000 gp = 2000 gp
1/2 (Spell Level) * 1 (Caster Level) * 2000 gp = 1000 gp

You wanted to lift 40-60 lbs? Well at caster level 3, telekinesis could move 75 lbs, which is about what you wanted. So why not start at 12000 gp?

[Senko]

I thought caster level to cast that spell the first time was the mninimum level you had to make the item e.g. you can't cast telekinesis till level 9 so the made item has to be level 9? If not then yes I do only need lvl 3 or even 2 thanks.

[OmniMage]

Its my house rule. I think its useful. You're not looking to get telekinesis at full power, so why should it be priced as such?

In my above example, I'm treating it as a 2nd level spell instead of 5th. You could try the opposite and empower mage hand to 2nd level or something.

Single spells have been used for a range of magic items and prices. A ring of Wizardry can be for level 1 spells and cost 20000 gp, or it could be used for increasingly more powerful versions, 40000 gp for level 2, 70000 gp for level 3, or 100000 gp for level 4. Ring of wizardry uses "Limited Wish" (7th level wizard spell) as the required spell. If priced as use-activated ability, it should start at 182000 gp, which way more than what the rings are priced as.

Ring of spell storing minor is 18000 gp for 3 spell levels, 50000 gp for 5 spell levels, and 200000 gp for 10 levels. These uses the spell "Imbue with spell ability" (4th level cleric spell) as the required spell. If priced as use-activated ability, it should start at 72000 gp, which is priced somewhere along the middle.

[Senko]

Ah so it is normally minimum level ok thanks.

[Diego Rossi]

Senko wrote:

Azothath wrote:

Has your imaginary figment familiar been able to use magic items or mundane items in the game?

There are magic item slots for familiars and animals. Changing magic item slots should carry a cost but RAW doesn't give a specific number.

It might be cheaper to just do hand of the mage. Wimpy but cost effective to test the waters with your GM in play.

Multiple disimilar powers in an item get a cost multiplier and sometimes must be slotless(*2) particularly with unlimited use. It's a balancing act with RAW item prices as guidelines.

Yes I'd need GM approval beforehand I don't see them having a problem with the speaking part. The telekinesis is more iffy but they've approved figment which will allow hands/tentalces so I think they'll be ok with the familiar having the ability to manipulate things. They had her eaten by a pack of wargs afterall. If they're going to target her like that I figure they'll let me take items.

While they have never gone around to changing the text, the Devs have said that the discount should apply only to the sale price, not the crafting price.

SKR, when he was the guy in charge of replying to rule questions:

Sean K Reynolds wrote:

James Risner wrote:

So more than likely, the price will be as if the light/esplend worked for everyone despite the fact it doesn't.

Correct.

When building an item, you calculate the cost to create it as if it were in the hands of an optimal user. Otherwise it's basically cheating. Observe:

Ezren makes a headband of vast intelligence +6. Cost to create: 18,000 gp

vs.

Ezren makes a headband of vast intelligence +6, but it only works for male humans (discount!) named Ezren (discount!) who are at least "old" age (discount) and were born in Absalom (discount!). Cost to create: ridiculously cheap, even though it works exactly like a standard headband +6.

For the OP's question:
Eagle’s splendor 2*3*1800/5 = 2160
Burning hands SL1 x CL3 x 1800/5 = 1080
Using the "multiple different abilities" guideline, we multiply the cost of the burning hands ability by 1.5 to get 1620
2160 + 1620 = 3,780

Glowing with light at will is pretty insignificant--it's not as good as being able to cast light at will (because only the orb lights, rather than being able to cast it on a coin you can throw, an ally's weapon, etc.), so I didn't use the standard SL .5 x CL 3 x 1800 for an on-command unlimited cantrip. Furthermore, the caster level of an unlimited-use light cantrip has a negligible effect (the effect on the duration is irrelevant because it's an at-will ability, and the increased resistance to a dispelling attempt is essentially irrelevant). Plus, the option to light at will is something you get for free in magic weapons, so throwing it in here at something than the formulaic cost is fair. As the mathematical price of the item so far is a non-simple number, I rounded the price up to 3,900 gp (1) to take into account the cost of the light ability, and (2) to make the final gp price nicer.

[ErichAD]

Deft digits uses the caster level as the strength score, not the caster's strength score. Even if you're forced to use minimum caster level, getting a 6th level caster to make the item gives you a strength of 7.

[Cevah]

You can request a discount from the GM. You cannot assume one.

Any limitation that isn't a limitation doesn't get a discount.

Basically making it specific to the intended target gets no discount.

/cevah