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There are two types of spells for a spontaneous caster:
-Normal spells, which must be cast at the level they take in your repertoire. (I surmise one's not required to accept all the heightened abilities though, i.e. Enlarge.)
-Signature spells, which may be cast at whatever the level is of the slot you expend (though not below the minimum level of the spell.)
I wish one could cast a 2nd level spell using a higher slot, yet having the 2nd level effects, but that's not a thing AFAICT.
From page 299 or the CRB:
If you’re a spontaneous spellcaster, you must know a spell at the specific level that you want to cast it in order to heighten it. You can add a spell to your spell repertoire at more than a single level so that you have more options when casting it. For example, if you added fireball to your repertoire as a 3rd-level spell and again as a 5th-level spell, you could cast it as a 3rd-level or a 5th-level spell; however, you couldn’t cast it as a 4th-level spell.
Its not quite the exact rule since you're asking about casting the 3rd level variant in the 4th level slot, w/o heightening.
However, if you could use a higher level slot, for a lower level spell, while gaining no advantage (not even the counteract level), I think this is were they would have specified it.
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I thought that one of the devs had mentioned you could do this (for no mechanical bonus) during the playtest, but looking at the rules, I don't see anything indicating it's possible:
I'm a spontaneous caster and I have 4th level restoration in my repertoire. I'm out of 4th level slots but I have a 5th level slot. Can I cast restoration at 4th level with a 5th level slot?
This is covered by the rules for Heightened Spells (and Heightened Spontaneous Spells) on page 299.
In short: no, you can't downcast for no extra effect.
When you cast a low-level spell out of a high-level slot, that's called Heightening the spell. There is no provision in the rules for casting a lower-level spell without heightening. It doesn't matter if the spell doesn't give you anything special (like more damage) when heightened.
For spontaneous casters then, there's the rule that they have to do one of two things to be able to heighten a spell:
- Learn it at that higher level. For example, you could know Magic Missile as a level 1 and level 3 spell, or even only as a level 3 spell.
- Choose it as a signature spell, which allows you to heighten (or even lower) using any spell slot that's suitable for at least the lowest possible version of the spell.
Beyond the basics, it also doesn't allow you to downcast cantrips ever (not that you'd frequently want to, but things like spell storing and spellstrike ammunition means it might be desirable). Am I wrong here?
Cantrips aren't cast out of spell slots per se, and are automatically heightened to ROUNDUP(your level / 2). They don't seem to have provided for an option to cast it at lower level.
That does mean that it would be hard to shove a cantrip into a spell-storing item, considering that Spell Storing is a level 13 rune so your cantrips would be somewhere around level 7 by then. I guess that's also not really how it's intended to be used. Spellstrike isn't quite such a lofty high level item but that one still doesn't seem easily accessible to cantrips.
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I'll venture that Cantrips aren't meant to work in Spell Storing items so there aren't unlimited damage boosts (though arguably the recharge time does this better).
Nods, just curious about this. It's unlikely to come up very often, but it is one weird eccentricity of this edition relative to others... I think it's safe to say making the argument of "well this is how it worked in first edition" just really isn't relevant.
I feel like what I might have remembered is a dev saying you can always heighten a spell, even if it has no additional effect. That's definitely different than being able to use a higher level slot to cast a lower level spell.
Yes, you can heighten any spell (if your abilities allow you to use a higher level slot for it that is).
So a Wizard, with no limits such as those, can cast any 1st level spell w/ their 10th level slot(s). At the least, the spell is that much harder to counteract or that much better at counteracting in some cases even if it gains no spell specific benefits from being heightened.
I thought that one of the devs had mentioned you could do this (for no mechanical bonus) during the playtest, but looking at the rules, I don't see anything indicating it's possible:
I'm a spontaneous caster and I have 4th level restoration in my repertoire. I'm out of 4th level slots but I have a 5th level slot. Can I cast restoration at 4th level with a 5th level slot?
Beyond the basics, it also doesn't allow you to downcast cantrips ever (not that you'd frequently want to, but things like spell storing and spellstrike ammunition means it might be desirable). Am I wrong here?
I haven’t found the dev post, but I’m pretty sure you are right. You can spend a 5th level slot to cast a 4th level spell (as a 4th level spell).
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I haven’t found the dev post, but I’m pretty sure you are right. You can spend a 5th level slot to cast a 4th level spell (as a 4th level spell).I thought that one of the devs had mentioned you could do this (for no mechanical bonus) during the playtest, but looking at the rules, I don't see anything indicating it's possible:
I'm a spontaneous caster and I have 4th level restoration in my repertoire. I'm out of 4th level slots but I have a 5th level slot. Can I cast restoration at 4th level with a 5th level slot?
Beyond the basics, it also doesn't allow you to downcast cantrips ever (not that you'd frequently want to, but things like spell storing and spellstrike ammunition means it might be desirable). Am I wrong here?
The rules in page 299 are pretty clear:
- Prepared casters can heighten any spell by preparing it in a higher level slot.
- Spontaneous casters can't heighten spells unless they learn it at the higher level too (paying a Spells Known slot) or unless it's a signature spell.
I wouldn't be surprised to at some point see a feat allowing spontaneous casters to "heighten for no benefit apart from spell slot flexibility", and that would be a pretty good feat.
I haven’t found the dev post, but I’m pretty sure you are right. You can spend a 5th level slot to cast a 4th level spell (as a 4th level spell).I thought that one of the devs had mentioned you could do this (for no mechanical bonus) during the playtest, but looking at the rules, I don't see anything indicating it's possible:
I'm a spontaneous caster and I have 4th level restoration in my repertoire. I'm out of 4th level slots but I have a 5th level slot. Can I cast restoration at 4th level with a 5th level slot?
Beyond the basics, it also doesn't allow you to downcast cantrips ever (not that you'd frequently want to, but things like spell storing and spellstrike ammunition means it might be desirable). Am I wrong here?
The rules in page 299 are pretty clear:
- Prepared casters can heighten any spell by preparing it in a higher level slot.
- Spontaneous casters can't heighten spells unless they learn it at the higher level too (paying a Spells Known slot) or unless it's a signature spell.I wouldn't be surprised to at some point see a feat allowing spontaneous casters to "heighten for no benefit apart from spell slot flexibility", and that would be a pretty good feat.
That would be consistent with the PF2 philosophy of Opt-in complexity.