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So... i really like monks but allways have to play low level games and he usually suffers from the MAD illness. If i dont put many stats on dex/wis he will be too easy to hit, and if i dont invest on str i will have a bad time dealing enough damage.
I thinked about maxing his strenght to be able to bypass dr without problems and solving his armor problems with the crane style. And in long term when i have a decent UMD use a mage armor wand.
So far the build is this one:
20 Points. Human. Lvl 3
Str 20
Dex 12
Con 12
Int 10 (My dm tends to mock people that dump int so in this case ill let the 10)
Wis 13
Cha 7
Feats: Dodge (monk), racial herritage (halfling), cautious fighter
traits: Dangerously curious, Cautious warrior
With that the ac would be 13, now the idea is to compensate this by fighting defensively
- Standard fighting defensively is +2 ac
- A Sansetsukon gives a +1
- Cautious warrior another +1
- Crane style +1, only -2 for doing that.
- Cautious fighter +2
- Cautious warrior trait +1
That gives a total of +8 ac for a 21 with a -2 to hit, a mtw Sansetsukon would be hitting with a +6 for 1d10+7 or +4 +4 when using flury.
That without archetypes... if the gm lets me then i think it would be sohei or sacred mountain
What do you think of this build? should i flurry? Its worth to invest in this?
That 20 STR on a 20pt buy is more of a detriment than an advantage...
For a human Monk with a 20pt buy, I would start with something like:
17,14,14,10,14,8
At lower levels your damage comes from the number of attacks you get using Flurry, not your strength bonus by itself.
I don't really have a problem with the MADness because I tend to always try have well-rounded stats.
At my table, for character creation, I don't allow stats below 8, even after racial modifiers are factored in.
In essence, I think you weakened your character by spending way too many points on your Strength, and you have to resort to cheap parlor tricks to compensate...
While the thread is a bit dated and newer options are available, this thread has quite a few optimized monk builds mixed in with all the complaints about monks.
The thread is an interesting read: it sheds light on just how far people will go claiming a class sucks rather than admit there are plenty of competitive builds.
There really is no need for 20 STR on an UnMonk. You don't kill things significantly faster.
Also, do note that Crane Wing, the good feat in the Crane Style featline (because the rest are meh) requires a free hand to use. A Sansetsukuon prevents that.
...wait.
Is this NOT Unchained?!
While the thread is a bit dated and newer options are available, this thread has quite a few optimized monk builds mixed in with all the complaints about monks.
I'm not going to look through 24 pages, but I rather doubt that it really does. Not counting builds using the few archetypes that actually make cMonk a viable class, like Zen Archer or Tetori.
@Targutai Minyatur: Buy a Wand of Mage Armor and have some spellcaster in your party use it on your Monk.
I'm not going to look through 24 pages, but I rather doubt that it really does. Not counting builds using the few archetypes that actually make cMonk a viable class, like Zen Archer or Tetori.While the thread is a bit dated and newer options are available, this thread has quite a few optimized monk builds mixed in with all the complaints about monks.
The thread is an interesting read: it sheds light on just how far people will go claiming a class sucks rather than admit there are plenty of competitive builds.
Too funny!
I'm not going to look through 24 pages, but I rather doubt that it really does. Not counting builds using the few archetypes that actually make cMonk a viable class, like Zen Archer or Tetori.
You would be wrong. Very wrong.
After builds were posted that had higher DPR than most barbarians, people started complaining that monks were horrible because you could not build a decent unarmed core rulebook monk.
Builds were posted that matched Barbarian DPR, unarmed, without archetypes.
People complained ... ki is a limited resource, you can't count ki into anything. While comparing the monk builds to raging barbarians with archetypes.
It was amusing because every. single. time. a build was posted, the bar was moved.
But by all means, don't waste your time.
After builds were posted that had higher DPR than most barbarians, people started complaining that monks were horrible because you could not build a decent unarmed core rulebook monk.
Builds were posted that matched Barbarian DPR, unarmed, without archetypes.
Do you happen to have any such posts saved (or at least page numbers), so you could point me to them? I'd like to see them (just not enough to go through 24 pages).
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Do you happen to have any such posts saved (or at least page numbers), so you could point me to them? I'd like to see them (just not enough to go through 24 pages).After builds were posted that had higher DPR than most barbarians, people started complaining that monks were horrible because you could not build a decent unarmed core rulebook monk.
Builds were posted that matched Barbarian DPR, unarmed, without archetypes.
There are several consolidated build lists in the thread right after post #3
Derklord no offence, but what are you doing? You're being so blindly antagonistic that you're making a parody of yourself.
If you want to debate then read the material - the thread Volkard Abendroth linked. Then once you've read it start your own thread rather than derailing this one.
@Volkard Abendroth: Thank you very much, I will look at them all.
@MrCharisma: Funny, the only one in this thread who hasn't posted anything on-topic, or anything helpful at all, or even just anything that wasn't strictly against someone, was you.
Apologies.
I really wasn't trying to offend, but I realise my language choices weren't especially helpful =P
(Also it probably should have been a private message rather than a board post, so I apologize for that as well.)
Looking at the third build Volkard linked, it has damage stated at 1d10 + 18. Can anyone explain that bonus to me? I see str7 , 1 from trait and 2 from AMF. Dragon ferocity I think gives 3 more. Total +13, But I do not see the remaining bonus. Thanks
Looking at the third build Volkard linked, it has damage stated at 1d10 + 18. Can anyone explain that bonus to me? I see str7 , 1 from trait and 2 from AMF. Dragon ferocity I think gives 3 more. Total +13, But I do not see the remaining bonus. Thanks
He has power attack for +4 and Desperate Battler, +1 attack/damage when alone.
There is actually an error in the numbers given, because Artanthos ignores that Power Attack uses the modified BAB of Flurry. The Power Attack should be -3/+6 when flurrying.
Apologies.
I really wasn't trying to offend, but I realise my language choices weren't especially helpful =P
No hard feelings!
Looking at the third build Volkard linked, it has damage stated at 1d10 + 18. Can anyone explain that bonus to me? I see str7 , 1 from trait and 2 from AMF. Dragon ferocity I think gives 3 more. Total +13, But I do not see the remaining bonus. Thanks
1d10 + 7 (Str) + 3 (Dragon Ferocity) + 6 (Power Attack) + 2 (Amulet of Mighty Fists) + 1 (Quain Martial Artist) + 1 (Desperate Battler)
And it is 1d10+24 on the first attack because Dragon Ferocity doubles the Strength there.
Actually, Dragon Ferocity and Power Attack interaction should not raise the Power Attack bonus to damage by +50%?
This bonus to damage is increased by half (+50%) if you are making an attack with a two-handed weapon, a one handed weapon using two hands, or a primary natural weapon that adds 1-1/2 times your Strength modifier on damage rolls
...increase your Strength bonus on unarmed strike damage rolls by an additional one-half your Strength bonus, to a total of double your Strength bonus on the first attack and 1-1/2 times your Strength bonus on the other attacks
If so...
1d10 + 7 (Str) + 3 (Dragon Ferocity) + 9 (Power Attack) + 2 (Amulet of Mighty Fists) + 1 (Quain Martial Artist) + 1 (Desperate Battler) = 1d10 + 23
First attack = 1d10 + 27
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Actually, Dragon Ferocity and Power Attack interaction should not raise the Power Attack bonus to damage by +50%?
They don't, because Power Attack asks for a "primary natural weapon that adds 1-1/2 times your Strength modifier on damage rolls", and an unarmed strike is never, ever a primary natural attack.
And because the argument gets made just about every time, no, the classification in primary or secondary attack is made by a general rule, and that does not fall under "effects that enhance or improve either manufactured weapons or natural weapons."
Dangerously Curious is arguably the best trait in the game -- but you're not giving it much to work with by draining charisma down to the rocks.So... i really like monks but allways have to play low level games and he usually suffers from the MAD illness. If i dont put many stats on dex/wis he will be too easy to hit, and if i dont invest on str i will have a bad time dealing enough damage.
So far the build is this one: 20 Points. Human. Lvl 3
Str 20
Dex 12
Con 12
Int 10 (My dm tends to mock people that dump int so in this case ill let the 10)
Wis 13
Cha 7
Feats: Dodge (monk), racial herritage (halfling), cautious fighter
traits: Dangerously curious, Cautious warrior
Note that, while the sansetsukon is a monk-group weapon (meaning they can flurry with it), monks themselves are not automatically proficient in it. (An opalescent white pyramid ioun stone won't help either, because monks don't have martial weapon proficiencies.) I.e., a feat must be invested in EWP in order to use this weapon in a straight-class build.With that the ac would be 13, now the idea is to compensate this by fighting defensively
- Standard fighting defensively is +2 ac
- A Sansetsukon gives a +1
-- You've essentially massively over-bought strength at character-creation, but then nerfed your attack-bonus to deal with the crap AC resultant from dumping your other attributes to affording funding the 17 build-point barbecue required for that starting 20 in strength. ....ouch. (Meanwhile, the barbarian who spends only five build-points for a 14 racially adjusted to 16 will just rage to 20.)- Cautious warrior another +1
- Crane style +1, only -2 for doing that.
- Cautious fighter +2
- Cautious warrior trait +1
That gives a total of +8 ac for a 21 with a -2 to hit, a mtw Sansetsukon would be hitting with a +6 for 1d10+7 or +4 +4 when using flury.
What do you think of this build?
It's a terrific, blazing funeral pyre of precise point-buy best observed from a relatively safe distance where the character-sheets on fire aren't ones in front of you, and preferably witnessed from a different table entirely. ;-)
The solution is: don't do any that, and save a huge pile of traits and feats, e.g.,
STR+ 17 (bump 4th)
DEX: 14
CON: 14 (human, 15,14,14,14,12,7 20pt array)
INT: 12
WIS: 14
CHA: 7
Versus the Str20 build that fights defensively, now you're not MAD, and enjoy a better attack bonus and the same AC before the investiture of traits and feats to make defensive fighting work better.
allways have to play low level games
Have you considered the possibility of jumping ship after only a dip into the class? (I mean, you make it sound like you might not even get to Monk 4th to enjoy Ki, and don't seem to be planning on it with a Wis of only 13.) --Monks, unlike paladins and barbarians, don't lose any of their abilities after switching class and/or alignment. Meaning they can still flurry and still add their wisdom to AC.
STR+ 16
DEX: 14
CON: 12
INT: 10 (human, 14,14,12,12,12,10 20pt array)
WIS: 14
CHA: 12
Traits: Dangerously Curious
01 monk[Chained]1, FEAT(human), FEAT(general), FEAT(monk)
02 slayer1 or ranger1
03 s2 or r2 [combat style:Archery:Rapid Shot], FEAT(g)
This build flurries in melee, rapid-shoots with a sling or bow, and has a 750gp wand-cast Mage Armor up usually before combat begins for a no-armor AC of 18 (or 16 flat-footed versus touch! with MA up pre-combat), not counting traits and feats providing more. You have one unused trait slot and all four unused feat slots. The Sansetsukon, as a martial eastern weapon, is now kosher without EWP. Your "real world" damage is better than the OP's due to enjoying very frequent ranged full-attack options that don't suck (i.e., you're not limited to shurikens with pathetically awful 10' range increments). With a positive charisma score, the character also isn't socially repellant. (<Rodney Dangerfield voice> "Yay! I'm a monk who can get laid without paying for it! No wonder they kicked me out of the monastery; they're *jealous*!" </Rodney>)
(Typo: I meant Unchained monk in the last example in the post above. I don't normally like Unchained monk, but if you're only dipping for flurry, then it serves nicely, and you don't lose BAB on non-flurries.)