
Pro100Andr |

In Pathfinder a lot of different ways to unarmed combat: classes, archetypes, items, feats and so on. And on of main parts of unarmed combat is Style feats. They gain diiferent bonus to many situations. But we can have only one active style stance. To change the style we need to take combat master feat, to change them immediatent action.
With this feat and action aconomy can help MoMS monk. His abilities allow to fuse 2(kn high levels more)styles in one. In some builds people take 1 level of MoMS to fuse styles. But there arent other ways to fuse styles? For example Free style Fighter. He gain Brawler Martial Flexibility and fusing styles on 3rd levels
What are you think about Free style Fighter and there are another ways to fuse styles, except MoMS?

Secret Wizard |

In Pathfinder a lot of different ways to unarmed combat: classes, archetypes, items, feats and so on. And on of main parts of unarmed combat is Style feats. They gain diiferent bonus to many situations. But we can have only one active style stance. To change the style we need to take combat master feat, to change them immediatent action.
With this feat and action aconomy can help MoMS monk. His abilities allow to fuse 2(kn high levels more)styles in one. In some builds people take 1 level of MoMS to fuse styles. But there arent other ways to fuse styles? For example Free style Fighter. He gain Brawler Martial Flexibility and fusing styles on 3rd levels
What are you think about Free style Fighter and there are another ways to fuse styles, except MoMS?
MoMS: Interesting to play with, but doomed by the usual issues of the CRB Monk and the lack of Flurry. Works well in like, 30 point buy onwards, when you can have stupid ass DEX to get Two-Weapon Fighting, with enough STR to exploit Dragon Style + Pummeling Style + Crane Style.
UnMonk stance dancing: UnMonk is not a bad stance dancer TBH. Crane Style and Jabbing Style share the key components, and it's not too hard to switch from one to the other. Another viable combo is a Sage Counsellor going from Outslug Style to Crane Style or Dragon Style.
Brawler stance dancing: Brawlers are better due to access to martial flexibility. The usual combo would be to Pummeling Charge, then dance into Dragon Style or something else that allows you to increase output. Outslug into other styles also works I guess?
Grappler stance dancing: This is another option, using things like Charging Stag Style to pounce on enemies, and then Kraken Style to damage and suffocate them.
Free Style Fighter: Loses way too much power. Not worth it. The class chassis is too weakened to make it worth it.
Ascetic Style + Weapon Style Mastery: This is a super powerful combo for UnMonks and a couple other builds, like Iroran Paladins, Sacred Fist Warpriests, or Jistkan Artificer Magus. For example, an UnMonk could use a Waveblade with Ascetic Style + Dragon Style to deliver 1.5x STR hits with a very high critical range. Similarly, a more defensive build could be done with a Waveblade, Ascetic Style, Crane Style, and Weapon Finesse.
Elemental Monk UnMonk: It's not terrible, but it's probably worse than a vanilla UnMonk.

Scott Wilhelm |
MoMS: Interesting to play with, but doomed by the usual issues of the CRB Monk and the lack of Flurry.
MOMS Monks are good for a dip or 2, but that's about it.
MOMS Monks can't use their bonus Feats to take any Feats on the Style Feat trees except for the Style Feats themselves, and that's horrible. Other Classes can use Style Feats, and get Style Feats as bonus Feats. The only thing that MOMS Monks get is the ability to use more than 1 Style Feat at a time. You get to use 2 at once at level 1, and you don't get to add a 3rd until level 6. Ridiculous.
To be the best MOMS Monk you could be, you'd have to do something like take levels in Fighter so you could get your 2nd and 3rd Feats in your Style Feat Tree quickly, then take some more levels in MOMS to get your 3rd Style Feat, then 2 more levels in Fighter to get the rest of those Feats. Meanwhile, there are just better ways to grow in power as a melee character.
I have 2 character builds that use levels in MOMS Monk. Both of them use Panther Style. One of them uses Ascetic Style. The other uses Snake Style. 1 of them uses 2 levels in Monk. The other uses 1. They're both powerful builds. And those 1 or 2 levels in MOMS Monk are key, but honestly, the class is pathetic if the most rabid multiclass-dipper on the forums (I think that's me.) can only find 1 or 2 levels worthwhile.

Scott Wilhelm |
It's very hard to find worthy dips imho. There are way too many level dependent effects out there to make it worth it.
You and I have very different views on dipping, but this time, when it come to how good MOMS Monks are in general, it seems our views point in the same direction.

Pro100Andr |

Pro100Andr wrote:In Pathfinder a lot of different ways to unarmed combat: classes, archetypes, items, feats and so on. And on of main parts of unarmed combat is Style feats. They gain diiferent bonus to many situations. But we can have only one active style stance. To change the style we need to take combat master feat, to change them immediatent action.
With this feat and action aconomy can help MoMS monk. His abilities allow to fuse 2(kn high levels more)styles in one. In some builds people take 1 level of MoMS to fuse styles. But there arent other ways to fuse styles? For example Free style Fighter. He gain Brawler Martial Flexibility and fusing styles on 3rd levels
What are you think about Free style Fighter and there are another ways to fuse styles, except MoMS?
MoMS: Interesting to play with, but doomed by the usual issues of the CRB Monk and the lack of Flurry. Works well in like, 30 point buy onwards, when you can have stupid ass DEX to get Two-Weapon Fighting, with enough STR to exploit Dragon Style + Pummeling Style + Crane Style.
UnMonk stance dancing: UnMonk is not a bad stance dancer TBH. Crane Style and Jabbing Style share the key components, and it's not too hard to switch from one to the other. Another viable combo is a Sage Counsellor going from Outslug Style to Crane Style or Dragon Style.
Brawler stance dancing: Brawlers are better due to access to martial flexibility. The usual combo would be to Pummeling Charge, then dance into Dragon Style or something else that allows you to increase output. Outslug into other styles also works I guess?
Grappler stance dancing: This is another option, using things like Charging Stag Style to pounce on enemies, and then Kraken Style to damage and suffocate them.
Free Style Fighter: Loses way too much power. Not worth it. The class chassis is too weakened to make it worth it.
Ascetic Style + Weapon Style Mastery: This is a super powerful combo for UnMonks and a couple other builds, like Iroran Paladins, Sacred Fist...
Why ascetic line good for UnMonk and Artificer? They already have good unarmed damage. Maybe because of Ascetic form(im not understand what it gives to player)

Secret Wizard |

Ascetic Form is what we are aiming for.
This is true for all the Style builds mentioned above: a lot of them are dependent on you going for more than the first feat.
Ascetic Form allows the UnMonk to use Stunning Fists, Ki Powers and Style Strikes with manufactured weapons. This allows you to use higher crit weapons like the Waveblade, which has 18-20 crits, or the Urumi, which also does and can be 2Hd for 1.5x STR.
Once that is done, add Dragon Style or Shark Style for more damage that is multiplied on criticals, or Crane Style or a quarterstaff and Stick Fighter Style, and so on.
It's a pretty dang powerful combo.
As for Artificer, with Ascetic Form, you can access Urumis and Waveblades with 18-20 crits, which makes them as powerful as scimitars, which are stupid good on a Magus.
Then, Ascetic Form also allows you to use anything that applies to your unarmed attacks to your Urumi/Waveblade attacks... which means Flurrying Arm allows you to hit more with these weapons.

Scott Wilhelm |
Why ascetic line good for UnMonk and Artificer? They already have good unarmed damage. Maybe because of Ascetic form(im not understand what it gives to player)
My build that uses Ascetic Style actually does take 2 levels in Monk, Master of Many Styles. She is a Half Elf with the Ancestral Arms Alternate Racial Trait. She takes proficiency in Split Blade Sword, and then Modified Split Blade Sword. She gets the Modification to put Split Blade Sword into the Monk Fighter Weapon Group. So she then can take Ascetic Style for her Split Blade Sword. An alternative could have been to take Ascetic Style for 9 Ring Broadsword and then take Martial Versatility for Ascetic Style, and apply it to Split Blade Sword that way.
Anyway, she also takes Panther Style Feats so she gets lots of bonus attacks that do a base of 2d6 Damage. More eventually: She dips into Ranger and Living Monolith. She uses a Wand of Lead Blades and Enlarge Person so that she gets 2 size increases for her sword, doing 4d6 Base Damage.
She then takes 5 levels in Inquisitor taking Broken Wing Gambit for Attacks of Opportunity and Bane. She dips a level in Cavalier for Paired Opportunist so her allies get Attacks of Opportunity as well.
Since so many of her attacks come just from moving and counterpunching, she doesn't really lose that much from taking a Standard Action for Castin Lead Blades.
If she got high enough level, she could taking Tripping Feats--Split Blade Sword is a Tripping Weapon, with Greater Trip, Vicious Stomp, and Fury's Fall, her Trip Mod could be significant, and since she already had Solo Tactics, she could Harder they Fall with no problem, removing the Size Limit and effectively turning every hit with her sword into 2. She is still limited by Combat Reflexes, but the abilit to heap them all on single opponents or spread them amongst several gives her flexibility and power for her many, high-damage attacks.