I have a PC Champion who is almost always refocusing and casting lay on hands throughout exploration. I think it's the player's right to sacrifice exploration capability to regain focus points; he can't use tactics or interact meaningfully with his environment while refocusing.
However, the player argued that he can continually refocus and cast lay on hands during downtime, which would allow him to rapidly recover everyone's hit points. This doesn't seem right.
Is there something about how focus spells interact with the exploration and downtime systems that I'm missing? What's stopping a PC that can cast healing spells with their focus points from constantly churning out the heals?
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Nothing except the time investment.
A nonsorcerer who's constantly casting and refocusing isn't really able to do anything else while they're doing it, but yes focus spells effectively provide for unlimited out of combat healing.
Nothing except the time investment.
A nonsorcerer who's constantly casting and refocusing isn't really able to do anything else while they're doing it, but yes focus spells effectively provide for unlimited out of combat healing.
That does make sense! So long as that's how it's meant to work, I'm good with it. I appreciate it!
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I use a tension dice pool for when my players are in a dungeon so that taking a 10 minute break isn't always a great idea. But between focus magic and treat wounds, out of combat healing is almost free in this edition, which I'm pretty happy with (it was more or less free in 1E with Wands of CLW, but far more janky).
I use a tension dice pool for when my players are in a dungeon so that taking a 10 minute break isn't always a great idea. But between focus magic and treat wounds, out of combat healing is almost free in this edition, which I'm pretty happy with (it was more or less free in 1E with Wands of CLW, but far more janky).
I'd love to hear more about your "tension dice pool!" It sounds like a good way to keep things moving in the absence of typical random encounter rolls.
Also glad to hear that free out-of-combat healing has a precedent in 1e.
To clarify, only Sorcerers recharge their focus points automatically (and possibly MCD Sorcerers w/ a Sorcerer focus point, though that hasn't been verified). So they could do any other task while casting/recharging.
Other folk have to do something which suits a source of focus points for them (whichever one they wish if they have multiple).
Ex. A Cleric of a god of healing can do Treat Wounds at the same time they restore a focus point, while a different Cleric may not be able to.
So we might get odd situations like a Cleric of a god of stealth being sneaky in Exploration Mode to recharge their focus pool.
The Champion has to be praying or doing something thematic to their deity, like cleaning their weapons for a war god or drinking for Cayden.
And yes, the Champion is the best source of perpetual out-of-combat healing at the very lowest levels. At least until the medic picks up some skill feats to hasten Treat Wounds.
To clarify, only Sorcerers recharge their focus points automatically (and possibly MCD Sorcerers w/ a Sorcerer focus point, though that hasn't been verified).Under the sorcerer dedication feat Basic Bloodline Spell it says
... you also gain a focus pool of 1 Focus point, which you can Refocus without any special effort
Is there something written elsewhere that creates ambiguity?
Some posters here believe that if you already have a focus pool, you don't gain that version of the refocus action.
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I'd love to hear more about your "tension dice pool!" It sounds like a good way to keep things moving in the absence of typical random encounter rolls.
I'd be more than happy to share. I use a 2E-adapted version of this system.
Basically, whenever my players "spend 10 minutes" in a dungeon (resting, searching a room, loitering) I add a d10 to the tension pool. If they stay in the same place for another 10 minutes (because they want to more thoroughly search a room, or want to rest even more) the dice gets progressively smaller (d8, d6, d4). If an area is under "high alert", I will also roll smaller dice.
When there are six dice in the tension pool total, I roll them all which signifies the passing of an hour. If any dice rolls 1s, some "Bad Thing" happens. This "Bad Thing" is usually not combat, but some other kind of setback to the players. If you roll multiple 1s, even "Badder things" might happen.
Examples for "Bad Things" include: a guard patrol shows up, players have to hide; the villains get closer to their goals; innocents perish; the players encounter a trap; a cave-in occurs. And so on.
Some posters here believe that if you already have a focus pool, you don't gain that version of the refocus action.To clarify, only Sorcerers recharge their focus points automatically (and possibly MCD Sorcerers w/ a Sorcerer focus point, though that hasn't been verified).Under the sorcerer dedication feat Basic Bloodline Spell it says
... you also gain a focus pool of 1 Focus point, which you can Refocus without any special effort
Is there something written elsewhere that creates ambiguity?
For the record, I'm okay w/ the Sorcerer MCD allowing recharging without any special effort, and that's before reading that line. It's that, as you state, Squiggit, some posters disagree with that. Now I have something to point to (not that it's come up in play).
I think you gain every version of the refocus action from every source of focus points you have, even if you didn't gain a focus point because you've hit your cap.
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I'd love to hear more about your "tension dice pool!" It sounds like a good way to keep things moving in the absence of typical random encounter rolls.I'd be more than happy to share. I use a 2E-adapted version of this system.
Basically, whenever my players "spend 10 minutes" in a dungeon (resting, searching a room, loitering) I add a d10 to the tension pool. If they stay in the same place for another 10 minutes (because they want to more thoroughly search a room, or want to rest even more) the dice gets progressively smaller (d8, d6, d4). If an area is under "high alert", I will also roll smaller dice.
When there are six dice in the tension pool total, I roll them all which signifies the passing of an hour. If any dice rolls 1s, some "Bad Thing" happens. This "Bad Thing" is usually not combat, but some other kind of setback to the players. If you roll multiple 1s, even "Badder things" might happen.
Examples for "Bad Things" include: a guard patrol shows up, players have to hide; the villains get closer to their goals; innocents perish; the players encounter a trap; a cave-in occurs. And so on.
The "Angry GM" is a great site! I find it interesting/amusing that a lot of his complaints about D&D 5e (from back in like 2017) seem to have been addressed in PF2-- often in ways that strongly resemble his suggested fixes.
Basically, whenever my players "spend 10 minutes" in a dungeon (resting, searching a room, loitering) I add a d10 to the tension pool. If they stay in the same place for another 10 minutes (because they want to more thoroughly search a room, or want to rest even more) the dice gets progressively smaller (d8, d6, d4). If an area is under "high alert", I will also roll smaller dice.
How do you handle things if an AP expects the heros to spend time searching? Something like: "If the PC's search here for at least 20 minutes, then..."
Still tension building up?
Basically, whenever my players "spend 10 minutes" in a dungeon (resting, searching a room, loitering) I add a d10 to the tension pool. If they stay in the same place for another 10 minutes (because they want to more thoroughly search a room, or want to rest even more) the dice gets progressively smaller (d8, d6, d4). If an area is under "high alert", I will also roll smaller dice.How do you handle things if an AP expects the heros to spend time searching? Something like: "If the PC's search here for at least 20 minutes, then..."
Still tension building up?
I'd let them find it with a normal 10-minute search where everyone rolls a perception check. I haven't run into anything like that in 2E so far so I really don't have a precedent.
I'd love to hear more about your "tension dice pool!" It sounds like a good way to keep things moving in the absence of typical random encounter rolls.I'd be more than happy to share. I use a 2E-adapted version of this system.
Basically, whenever my players "spend 10 minutes" in a dungeon (resting, searching a room, loitering) I add a d10 to the tension pool. If they stay in the same place for another 10 minutes (because they want to more thoroughly search a room, or want to rest even more) the dice gets progressively smaller (d8, d6, d4). If an area is under "high alert", I will also roll smaller dice.
When there are six dice in the tension pool total, I roll them all which signifies the passing of an hour. If any dice rolls 1s, some "Bad Thing" happens. This "Bad Thing" is usually not combat, but some other kind of setback to the players. If you roll multiple 1s, even "Badder things" might happen.
Examples for "Bad Things" include: a guard patrol shows up, players have to hide; the villains get closer to their goals; innocents perish; the players encounter a trap; a cave-in occurs. And so on.
Thank you for elaborating! Tension dice seem to scratch that itch for strict timekeeping (a la OD&D), but without the very hit-and-miss encounter rolls; even if something bad doesn't happen right now, you're not suddenly safe.
The "Angry GM" is a great site! I find it interesting/amusing that a lot of his complaints about D&D 5e (from back in like 2017) seem to have been addressed in PF2-- often in ways that strongly resemble his suggested fixes.
I read a few of his articles a while back, but was turned off by his writing style before I found anything good. The basis for the tension dice concept and your recommendation make me want to take a second look!
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I am tempted to use a tension pool with d6’s but allow the first 10 minutes in an area to cost nothing. So people get a chance to search and recover but if they dawdle or fail their checks there is a possible consequence.
In a particularly dangerous area there would be no 10 minute grace period.
I am tempted to use a tension pool with d6’s but allow the first 10 minutes in an area to cost nothing. So people get a chance to search and recover but if they dawdle or fail their checks there is a possible consequence.
In a particularly dangerous area there would be no 10 minute grace period.
I like this leaner take!
I am tempted to use a tension pool with d6’s but allow the first 10 minutes in an area to cost nothing. So people get a chance to search and recover but if they dawdle or fail their checks there is a possible consequence.
In a particularly dangerous area there would be no 10 minute grace period.
That's a good adaption too! My system works double duty as a time-tracker since each time I roll and empty the tension pool an hour passes ingame, but your proposed system is less complicated and possibly feels less punishing to certain types of players.
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Thanks! My thinking is that (assuming it typically takes around 10 minutes to search an area) the game is somewhat designed for everyone to get a chance to refocus or do something else between fights, so I don’t generally want to penalize anyone for that.
That being said I will also use the version where you also roll the dice any time they do something particularly loud or noticeable, like kicking down doors, a particularly loud or long combat etc.
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I read a few of his articles a while back, but was turned off by his writing style before I found anything good. The basis for the tension dice concept and your recommendation make me want to take a second look!
The key is to skip/skim the first ~50% of each of his articles, which tends to be just rambling. the meat usually begins about halfway down, and there's often some very good ideas there.
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I am tempted to use a tension pool with d6’s but allow the first 10 minutes in an area to cost nothing. So people get a chance to search and recover but if they dawdle or fail their checks there is a possible consequence.
In a particularly dangerous area there would be no 10 minute grace period.
Because I'm a technical writer and was bored at work, I made an attempt at giving this a proper write-up, and even developed a version to use in Downtime Mode. Enjoy!
Whenever the party spends 10 minutes in a dungeon, add 1d6 to the tension pool. The GM can indicate that the tension pool increased by saying "time passes, and then..." before describing the results of a 10-minute spend. If the dungeon's denizens have a low state of readiness, give the party their first 10 minute spend in each location for free.
When the tension pool contains 6d6 or the party undergoes a course of action that would attract undue attention, roll the tension pool. If any dice show a 1, a setback occurs. If a setback occurs and the tension pool has 6 dice, remove all dice from the tension pool; otherwise, remove 1 die.
When the game enters downtime mode, remove all dice from the tension pool.
The first day spent in downtime mode does not contribute to the tension pool; increase this to a free week if there are no urgent plot elements. For every day spent thereafter, add 1d6 to the tension pool.
When the tension pool contains 6d6 or the party undergoes a course of action that is particularly disruptive, roll the tension pool. If any dice show a 1, a setback occurs. If a setback occurs and the tension pool has 6 dice, remove all dice from the tension pool; otherwise, remove 1 die.
When the game exits downtime mode, roll the tension pool. Then remove all dice from the tension pool.
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I am tempted to use a tension pool with d6’s but allow the first 10 minutes in an area to cost nothing. So people get a chance to search and recover but if they dawdle or fail their checks there is a possible consequence.
In a particularly dangerous area there would be no 10 minute grace period.
Because I'm a technical writer and was bored at work, I made an attempt at giving this a proper write-up, and even developed a version to use in Downtime Mode. Enjoy!
** spoiler omitted **
** spoiler omitted **
Love it! Thanks for doing this.
In my system though I would only add a die if they spend more than 10 minutes. So the first 10 minutes is free.