Attribute damage / Level drain

[Darksyde]

Two of things I hated most when running D&D and PF1st. I've been digging more and more in to things I didn't care for from 1st and after going through several searches of the Monster book it seems Attribute damage and level grain have been removed from the game. Fantastic if true. Energy drain is still in but works differently though can be a bit scary but I've not found any actual attribute damaging abilities. did I miss something or can I celebrate the removal of a couple more things that used to frustrate me?

[Captain Morgan]

Darksyde wrote:

Two of things I hated most when running D&D and PF1st. I've been digging more and more in to things I didn't care for from 1st and after going through several searches of the Monster book it seems Attribute damage and level grain have been removed from the game. Fantastic if true. Energy drain is still in but works differently though can be a bit scary but I've not found any actual attribute damaging abilities. did I miss something or can I celebrate the removal of a couple more things that used to frustrate me?

You are correct, they are gone. Instead, you can go through the condition list to see the equivalent statuses. Namely Enfeebled, Clumsy, Drained, and Stupified. But all of them are easier to run and there is no ennervated equivalent anymore.

[Aristophanes]

I ain't sheddin' no tears at the loss of Spell Resistance either!

[Castilliano]

Ability damage has been transformed to specific conditions for Str, Dex, Con, & the mental stats combined (as Captain Morgan listed). To me, they're functionally the same except combining the mental stat damage makes those fiercer than before. Since they were sorta weak if they hit one you didn't care about, combining them balances better.

Other changes:
-Losing a level from PF1 is generally done as Drain in PF2 (so like Con damage).
-Since they are conditions, not damage, they usually don't stack, which matters a whole lot re: attrition. This allows GMs to use poisons & other setbacks more freely w/o the adventure revolving around having a Wand of Lesser Restoration (or not).
-There are exceptional creatures who can stack those conditions, i.e. several undead, but thankfully they seem to cap the conditions at 4 max. So you could legitimately face a horde of wraiths or wights, though expect to be working at Drain 4!
-You can only receive Restoration 1/day, so though the attrition doesn't stack, it's sticky, at least until you rest.

Since hit points out-of-combat are so easy to restore in PF2, expect to see more conditions to simulate attrition as the party presses onward in a gauntlet or somesuch.

[thenobledrake]

My like of the way the ideas of drained life or stunted capability are handled in PF2 can be phrased as two things:

I am glad the "this is how you are supposed to apply this" part is written in the most playable format (the mod you apply and what you apply it to) instead of keeping to what used to be the way back in the (literally changing your ability score and re-doing all the math)

I am glad that the default assumption is that characters will recover, rather than the game building-in a death spiral mechanic and acting like that's not an issue.

[Vaktaeru]

As others have pointed out, attribute damage has been replaced with conditions, etc.

As far as the "instant die lol" effect that negative levels were, they've been most closely replaced with the "doomed" condition, which reducing the dying value you die at by 1 with each stack. If you ever reduce your "max" dying value to 0 through doomed, you die instantly (usually doomed 4).

However, unlike negative levels, doomed isn't a death spiral because you take no mechanical penalties from it until it actually kills you.