Hi there,
I have some doubts regards the bonuses provided by this item:
1)doubts about the "chain" subgroup.
Quote: The armor is so flexible it can bend with a critical hit and absorb some of the blow. Reduce the damage from critical hits by either 4 + the value of the armor’s potency rune for medium armor, or 6 + the value of the armor’s potency rune for heavy armor. This can’t reduce the damage to less than the damage rolled for the hit before doubling for a critical hit. Does the "blow" mean that we are talking about a physical attack?
Or the chain mail is meant to deal with all blows, regardless the fact they are from a weapon, a spell or a special ability?
Also, what about the "heavy" part? I can't find any heavy chain armors.
2) Elven Chain Mail modifier and runes
Here's the Elven Chain Mail description
Quote: Elven chain is a chain shirt made of mithral (page 579) that glitters in even the faintest light. It grants a +2 item bonus to AC and has no check penalty. and here's the rune description
Quote: Magic wards deflect attacks. Increase the armor’s item bonus to AC by 1. The armor can be etched with one property rune.
You can upgrade the armor potency rune already etched on a suit of armor to a stronger version, increasing the values of the existing rune to those of the new rune. You must have the formula of the stronger rune to do so, and the Price of the upgrade is the difference between the two runes’ Prices.
So here's the question: can an elven chain mail be modded with runes?
Another doubt related to armors.
Can Bracers of Armor be modded with runes?
Or they don't count as an Armor item?
K1 wrote: Hi there,
I have some doubts regards the bonuses provided by this item:
1)doubts about the "chain" subgroup.
Quote: The armor is so flexible it can bend with a critical hit and absorb some of the blow. Reduce the damage from critical hits by either 4 + the value of the armor’s potency rune for medium armor, or 6 + the value of the armor’s potency rune for heavy armor. This can’t reduce the damage to less than the damage rolled for the hit before doubling for a critical hit. Does the "blow" mean that we are talking about a physical attack?
Or the chain mail is meant to deal with all blows, regardless the fact they are from a weapon, a spell or a special ability?
Also, what about the "heavy" part? I can't find any heavy chain armors
Chain armor specializations should apply to all damage from critical hits. I would guess that the first line is 'flavor'.
As for heavy chain armor: there might not be one in the Core Rulebook, but if a later book has one, you have the rules already. It's future proofing.
K1 wrote: Another doubt related to armors.
Can Bracers of Armor be modded with runes?
Or they don't count as an Armor item?
Bracers of armor already have the potency runes included in their progression, property runes cannot be added however.
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Bracers of armor are kind of a trap. You're usually better off just enchanting your clothes. Then you can have all the runes you'd normally get. You can also wear other magic bracers, bracelets, or whatnot.
During the inevitable capture scenario guards are more likely to take your bracers than your Underoos +3.
Aservan wrote: Bracers of armor are kind of a trap. You're usually better off just enchanting your clothes. Then you can have all the runes you'd normally get. You can also wear other magic bracers, bracelets, or whatnot.
During the inevitable capture scenario guards are more likely to take your bracers than your Underoos +3.
I disagree, bracers can have talismans despite not getting property runes. And they're cheaper than purchasing the set of +3 potency/resilient runes.
Bracers of Armor +3 are 60,000 gp.
Armor Rune Potency +3 is 20560 gp. Major resilient rune is 49440 gp. For a total of 70,000 gp.
Honestly, unless you planned on using Property runes (and assuming you have +5 dex) the bracers are better than armor including the explorers clothes.
As for being captured and having your stuff taken, well I would expect that since clothing would be an option to provide armor and save bonuses (in universe) that people would be likely to take them off your back if they captured you and expected you to be trouble.
As players in first edition, my group would regularly go to the trouble of specifying that we gaged, bound, blindfolded, manacled, placed in full plate, and broke the hands of casters that we captured beyond stripping them of every possession they had. Sometimes we came up with inventive ways of doing just enough non-lethal damage to make sure that they we're constantly unconscious without a risk of dying.
I guess what I'm saying is, if your enemy is competent I wouldn't count on having any of your possessions.
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It is fun that a +3 rune is worth 10k less the whole bracers, which also have a +3 rune on themselves.
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Claxon wrote: Honestly, unless you planned on using Property runes (and assuming you have +5 dex) the bracers are better than armor including the explorers clothes. The big downside to the bracers in my mind is that they slow down your progression in armor potency. If you use runes, you get
+1 potency at 5th
+1 resiliency at 8th
+2 potency at 11th
+2 resiliency at 14th
+3 potency at 18th
+3 resiliency at 20th
whereas with the bracers, because the two are coupled, you get
+1 potency & resiliency at 8th
+2 potency & resiliency at 14th
+3 potency & resiliency at 20th
So at levels 5, 6, 7, 11, 12, 13, 18, 19 your potency is higher with runes than bracers. That's quite a lot of the time you'll be wearing them.
OTOH the bracers are 10-15% cheaper than the equivalent runes at each stage.
The real problem appears endgame.
Let's confront an unarmored vs Armored
Let's take a champion ( since monk doesn't have armors ).
Armored Champion
10 - FLAT
20 - LVL
8 - PROFICIENCY
6 - PLATE
2 - SHIELD
3 - RUNES
49 - TOTAL
+3 ALL ST
+3 REFLEX
5 BULK
Unarmored Champion
10 - FLAT
20 - LVL
8 - PROFICIENCY
7 - DEX
2 - SHIELD
3 - enchanted clothes
50 - TOTAL
+3 ALL ST
+7 REFLEX ( and all dex based skills )
1 BULK
This is ridiculous.
First, bulwark should be added to dex modifier. If you have high dex you are able to deal with dangerous effect. Also, if you have a suit, and you get scratch, it is only normal that you avoid being hit as you would have no armor at all.
Second, Plate armor should give more armor than being with no armor. It's not even about being equal to be naked. But it's worse!
K1 wrote: The real problem appears endgame.
Let's confront an unarmored vs Armored
Let's take a champion ( since monk doesn't have armors ).
Why are you taking 18 in Dex at first level? With Dex Apex item later on? I would rather have 18 strength or constitution. Even if you go Dex you would prefer to have some kind of armor on, since the armor specialization is still better than a +1 in your AC. Adding to that you would lose all runes, and some of them are quite strong.
I see that you have inserted +3 enchanted cloths, but those have a Dex cap of +5.
enchanted clothes have a max of +5. Both from explorer's clothing and bracers of armor, which are the ways to use unarmored defense. So it's actually 10 flat, 20 level, 8 proficiency, 5 dex, 2 shield, 3 bracers for 48.
EDIT: and the guy in full plate has high Str, so he does more damage and can carry more gear, and maybe invest in a couple other stats, like having a higher Wisdom for a better save there (because you'll want Str anyway on the unarmored guy)
Can't find clothes stats anywhere.
Where did you find a +5 cap?
Nvm I am definitely dumb.
Thanks for the replies guys.
Fuzzy-Wuzzy wrote: Claxon wrote: Honestly, unless you planned on using Property runes (and assuming you have +5 dex) the bracers are better than armor including the explorers clothes. The big downside to the bracers in my mind is that they slow down your progression in armor potency. If you use runes, you get
+1 potency at 5th
+1 resiliency at 8th
+2 potency at 11th
+2 resiliency at 14th
+3 potency at 18th
+3 resiliency at 20th
whereas with the bracers, because the two are coupled, you get
+1 potency & resiliency at 8th
+2 potency & resiliency at 14th
+3 potency & resiliency at 20th
So at levels 5, 6, 7, 11, 12, 13, 18, 19 your potency is higher with runes than bracers. That's quite a lot of the time you'll be wearing them.
OTOH the bracers are 10-15% cheaper than the equivalent runes at each stage. They're definitely not perfect, but I was simply pointing out that they weren't as bad as Aservan was saying.
They have advantages and disadvantages.
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I still think Bracers of Armor are a trap. Yes, Claxon is correct that they're cheaper, but quality > quantity. This is Armor we're talking about. You really think players will cheapo out on defense?
Property runes matter. Energy resistant can save you all over the place even at a measly -5 to damage.
It's a lot more efficient to learn how to craft two runes that can be used on all the group's armor than to learn to craft each kind of bracer. You can transfer runes to your clothes. Not so much to your bracers. Transferring is also much cheaper than the bracers, and it shouldn't be all that difficult to find some +x stuff no one wants.
You still can't stack magic items on your arms even if slots have gone the way of the dodo. As the books are released there will be more items and some of the good ones will probably be worn your forearms.
On one hand it is true.
On the other hand I see many give as Granted that a player will have plenty of milions to invest.
Given the rarity and thr cost, we probably won’t see a +3 resistance rune below lvl 20.
And we'll have to sacrifice something else if we Plan to invest over 80k in a single armor.
Best of all would be
Even Chan shirt, high Quality.
+3 AC runes
+3 ts runes
+3 runes ( Depends what you want to put. If you want to )
It would be more or Less 140k on a single item.
I don't think of it as millions to invest. I think of it as the GM dumps loot on the players. In some cases it's loot the players want. In other cases it isn't. Getting greater resilient chain mail +2, when no one in the group wears chain mail wouldn't be odd.
It's even less odd when the GM is running published adventures. It's easy for the wizard to transfer those runes to her robes, and thus not waste anything. That costs 344+106 GP or 450 GP and costs the party a day. Not a bad deal to obtain a very useful item.
It's practically a given that someone in the group will know how to craft armor runes. I don't think most players will go out of their way to find schematics for bracers of armor. Maybe I'm wrong. One has near ubiquitous utility and the other is useful sometimes.
Like I said – trap. Traps with no bait aren't really traps. Bracers of Armor are useful enough to wear if you've gotten them as loot, but having enchanted clothes is better.
Runes can only be attached to "explorers clothes". Which you could describe as a wziard's robe, but lets be clear about mechanics.
Also crafting doesn't save money. The value earned from crafting is actually (roughly) equal to the amount you can earn from doing downtime to earn an income. Crafting does have the benefit of letting you make things you don't otherwise have access to in a market.
Sure you can't immediately transfer runes you find to make your armor better.
There are drawbacks, but I really think you go too far when you say it's a trap.
Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
Claxon wrote: As players in first edition, my group would regularly go to the trouble of specifying that we gaged, bound, blindfolded, manacled, placed in full plate, and broke the hands of casters that we captured beyond stripping them of every possession they had. Sometimes we came up with inventive ways of doing just enough non-lethal damage to make sure that they we're constantly unconscious without a risk of dying. While I don't think most prisons go to those lengths, it is quite common to strip people down and put them in a standard issue jumpsuit.
Also, I'd imagine there's some hyperbole there. Otherwise, I'd be curious what rules you used for breaking specific bones, how it related to the healing rules, and what it takes to put someone in armor either with them unconscious or resisting.
BishopMcQ wrote: Otherwise, I'd be curious what rules you used for breaking specific bones, how it related to the healing rules, and what it takes to put someone in armor either with them unconscious or resisting. Probably narratively.
Player: "We break every finger on both hands"
GM: "Done, he won't be using somatic components for a few weeks at least"
Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber
Yeah, the idea that only things specifically codified in the rules can be done is... mystifying. Do people actually play RPGs that way?
Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
No, just because it's not in the rules doesn't limit the possibility. But, when adding those pieces, I am interested in how it interacts with other systems. Will magical healing reverse the effect? What level of magical healing is required? Heal would definitely do it, but would Cure Light Wounds?
Natural healing (1 hp/lvl/day) means that a wizard would regain all of their HP usually within a week's time, faster with rest or a healer's care. The dichotomy of HP and wounds which take weeks or months to naturally heal breaks down. Asking "how do you adjudicate that" is different than "that's not codified in the rules so you can't do it".
For the armor - we have rules about how long it takes to put on Full Plate. If someone is unconscious, maybe it takes 2 people the same amount of time as 1 person assisting or twice as long if just a single person is doing it. If they're resisting against you, is it 2-3 times?
Dressing a toddler takes different amounts of time on if they want to do it themselves, you help them, or they fight against you while you dress them...
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