Champions punished by non-good allies?

[Shahnaz]

The way I read it, Litany of Wrath and Aura of Faith both requires your allies to be Good-Aligned for it to work. Considering that my usual party are mostly always bordeline murderhobos CN (With me as the LG holding them on a leash), why are there spells that work in such a way that you require two precise alignments for them to work? (Evil on enemy, Good on ally)

[Phntm888]

I suspect that it's partially future-proofing. Both feats in questions have the Tenets of Good as a prerequisite. While that doesn't matter for the CRB, as all three Champion causes are good-aligned, it is future proofing for books that come out in the future, when Paizo eventually introduces Champion causes that are evil and neutral.

It's not that Champions are punished by having non-good allies, it's that Litany of Wrath and Aura of Faith don't benefit anyone except the Champion in a group of mostly non-good allies. Given the makeup of your group, you may want to choose different abilities at those levels - for instance, you could enhance your divine ally in place of Litany Against Wrath. Instead of Aura of Faith, you could take the feat that increases the effects of your Champion's cause devotion spell, or if you went the Mercy route, you could take Affliction Mercy.

There are a lot of options that are still beneficial - it's just that options like those two aren't going to be as useful for your group.

[David knott 242]

I guess they are meant to encourage you to get together with good aligned allies.

Aura of Faith is a poor pick if you have no good allies.

Litany Against Wrath works fine if you can get into the face of the enemy that you used it on in order to be able to punish it for inflicting damage on you.

[Shahnaz]

David knott 242 wrote:

I guess they are meant to encourage you to get together with good aligned allies.

Aura of Faith is a poor pick if you have no good allies.

Litany Against Wrath works fine if you can get into the face of the enemy that you used it on in order to be able to punish it for inflicting damage on you.

Yeah, but every spells that allow metagaming to circumvent the problem is just bad design imo.

[Squiggit]

I don't see how that qualifies as metagaming to circumvent the problem. It's doing exactly what the spell is supposed to do.

[PossibleCabbage]

I believe the general solution to "this feat doesn't work well because of the composition of my particular party" is "take a different feat then."

It's like how shield warden isn't great if you are the only frontliner or how divine ally (steed) is a weak choice if the campaign is one where mounted combat opportunities are rare.

[Saedar]

Shahnaz wrote:

David knott 242 wrote:

I guess they are meant to encourage you to get together with good aligned allies.

Aura of Faith is a poor pick if you have no good allies.

Litany Against Wrath works fine if you can get into the face of the enemy that you used it on in order to be able to punish it for inflicting damage on you.

Yeah, but every spells that allow metagaming to circumvent the problem is just bad design imo.

It may not be design you like but that doesn't make it bad design. Like the above people have indicated, it is likely intended to inform/reinforce the party composition.

[Unicore]

Hopefully we will eventually get some feat support for champions who want to shepherd those with questionable paths into the light, but that seems like it will be more of a redeemer/champion of Sarenrae path than a Paladin of Torag path