Champion of Irori

[likrin]

Good Day All,

I am building a Champion of Irori and am trying to find the best route to go with it.

With the Champion as a base and Monk Archetype I will get:
Armored, Unarmered Defense, Unarmed Attack at Trained
Fortitude and Will at Expert
Champion’s Reaction
Lay on Hands
2nd level I will have Unarmed Attack at a d6? (Unsure how Deific Weapon and Powerful Fist work together)
This will be missing out on Flurry of Blows till later, behind on Unarmered Defense till later
This one looks like it starts off slow but by 13th becomes quite the beast, I just don’t know if I will get that high.

With the Monk as a base and Champion Archetype I will get:
Unarmered Defense, Unarmed Attack,
Fortitude, Reflex and Will at Expert
2 More skills
Flurry of Blows
Powerful Fists at 1st
2nd I will get Lay on Hands
This one I’ll be missing out on Smite Evil until late
This one starts off good to concept but really just turns into a monk with lay on hands and loses out on a core feature to the “Paladin-Monk” I knew the Champion of Irori is.

Is there something that I am missing? A better way of looking at this or doing this?

[Fuzzy-Wuzzy]

Well, class feats are a pretty big deal. If you're a Champion MC'ing Monk, you shouldn't just settle for Flurry at 10th; you should use Basic Kata and Advanced Kata to get some cool monk feats before and/or after that. Vice versa if you're a monk mc'ing champion.

[lordcirth]

Champion will get you d6 fists. Monk Dedication will get Powerful Fist, which won't stack but does grant lethal attacks without penalty. You can use light armor at first, until you get stances that require unarmored.

[Delgarond]

likrin wrote:

2nd I will get Lay on Hands

Lay on Hands will be at 4th level at the earliest.

[rainzax]

Monk / Cleric (Irori)?

[Debelinho]

those 2 classes are not the best fit TBH...

champion works best with dex dump because of heavy armor prof
monk works best with cha dump and high dex

so either way you will have to put 14 in a score you don't need at all...

if you plan to go unarmored, then go monk first for sure...

also, what rainzax said...

[Fuzzy-Wuzzy]

Debelinho wrote:

monk works best with cha dump and high dex

True unless the monk goes the Mountain Stance route. (Mt Stance at 1st, Mt Stronghold at 6th, Stance Savant at 12th, Mt Quake at 14th.) The main benefit of that strategy being that you can start with a 10 dex, though you'll have to put boosts into it at 5th and 10th (but no later) to take advantage of increasing dex cap. Anyway, the 10 starting dex should give you room for decent Str&Con&Cha. You'll have to avoid ki feats that rely on wisdom, but AFAIK that's just Ki Blast and sometimes Wholeness of Body.

[tqomins]

Debelinho wrote:

champion works best with dex dump because of heavy armor prof

Not really. There's only a +1 AC difference between light/medium (+5) and heavy (+6) armor. So there are plenty of great champion builds that'll trade that 1 AC for the advantages of not bothering with heavy armor (e.g., speed). What I've quoted here ("best") is just not true.

[Debelinho]

tqomins wrote:

Debelinho wrote:

champion works best with dex dump because of heavy armor prof

Not really. There's only a +1 AC difference between light/medium (+5) and heavy (+6) armor. So there are plenty of great champion builds that'll trade that 1 AC for the advantages of not bothering with heavy armor (e.g., speed). What I've quoted here ("best") is just not true.

well, not really....but I'll add "IMO" to that. Champions have 1 thing they are best at....AC...only class with heavy armors that get legendary prof with it. It is certainly possible to make a build that uses medium or light armor...same as making a fighter with a simple club as his chosen weapon can be done....but don't call it great

champions just don't have any support in their class abilities or feats to go ranged or finesse...and every point they put in dex is a point less in con, str, cha or wis.

I'm not saying it's total crap or not viable....but it will not be "great"

[Ravingdork]

Debelinho wrote:

those 2 classes are not the best fit TBH...

champion works best with dex dump because of heavy armor prof
monk works best with cha dump and high dex

so either way you will have to put 14 in a score you don't need at all...

if you plan to go unarmored, then go monk first for sure...

also, what rainzax said...

Half-elves can get around that ability prerequisite.

[Debelinho]

Ravingdork wrote:

Debelinho wrote:

those 2 classes are not the best fit TBH...

champion works best with dex dump because of heavy armor prof
monk works best with cha dump and high dex

so either way you will have to put 14 in a score you don't need at all...

if you plan to go unarmored, then go monk first for sure...

also, what rainzax said...

Half-elves can get around that ability prerequisite.

yes, but at 9th level...so if it's not too late for OP, it can work

[Ravingdork]

Debelinho wrote:

Ravingdork wrote:

Debelinho wrote:

those 2 classes are not the best fit TBH...

champion works best with dex dump because of heavy armor prof
monk works best with cha dump and high dex

so either way you will have to put 14 in a score you don't need at all...

if you plan to go unarmored, then go monk first for sure...

also, what rainzax said...

Half-elves can get around that ability prerequisite.

yes, but at 9th level...so if it's not too late for OP, it can work

Could have sworn the ability to ignore the ability prerequisites of archetypes was in a sidebar and not in a feat. I thought it was something all half-elves got from level 1. My brain must be getting old. :(

[Debelinho]

it's a great option still...to pick up a second dedication even if you dont have scores or 3 dedication feats from previous one.