Archetypes vs Dedications

[BishopMcQ]

I'm curious how people think archetypes will go in the future, looking at the APG and beyond. Lost Omens World Guide gave a bunch of new Dedications, many following options that used to be Prestige Classes (Red Mantis) but others were archetypes (Sword lord). Arguably the Aldori Sword Lord was both an archetype and a PrC

In 1E, some archetypes changed the starting proficiencies, gave extra skills, etc. Should future archetypes change base features of classes or is that the realm of a Dedication?

If the APG offers alternative Fighters like the 1E APG did, should the new class feats be open to any Fighter or gated behind other feats? Example like allowing Fighters to reach Legendary with their maneuvers and Class DC but they lose Heavy Armor Proficiency.

What do people think about the design space available and where does the line belong for a class ability swap in archetypes like we know them from before and the new Dedication system?

[Cthulhusquatch]

They did say that there will be Class Archetypes that change class features.

[kaid]

I believe the core rule book actually talks a bit about class archetypes and a bit about some basic differences in how they work. I expect the first batch of those we will see is the advanced players guide.

[Quandary]

Well Class-specific Archetype Feats can do that certainly, but Feat isn't strictly necessary.
Already Class have "Path" designations which alter core proficiencies and abilities like Cloister/Warpriest and Ruffian Rogue.
Really only Fighter and Monk DON'T have those built in, but there could be "alt-class" that does that for them without using Feat.
(they probably won't call those "Archetype" though since the term is too associated with Dedication Feats etc, but 'alt-class' could work)

[BishopMcQ]

Where do they mention Archetypes for changing class features? Was that on one of the Twitch streams?

I've seen the Rackets, Research Fields etc that form the different Paths for a class. My hope is that the new archetypes/paths are not replacements for these but build on them. A Hospitaller Champion could be taken by any Champion. A Cat Burglar Rogue could be limited to the Thief Racket but either the Ruffian or Scoundrel should be able to become a Corsair.

For something like a Skulls and Shackles campaign where everyone should be a Pirate, it'd be nice if there were thematic Archetypes (published with APs in the Players Guide perhaps) where every character got access to the pool and the different feats could be bought by any of the characters as substitute Class Feats or Skill Feats. Maybe have the thematic feats work similar to the Dedications, without the restriction that you must pick 2 feats before starting a new Dedication?

[Cthulhusquatch]

"It may be possible to take a class archetype at 1st level if it alters or replaces some of the class’s initial class features. In that case, you must take that archetype’s dedication feat at 2nd level, and after that you proceed normally."

Class Archetypes will still have a dedication feat. But they change class features.

BishopMcQ wrote:

Where do they mention Archetypes for changing class features? Was that on one of the Twitch streams?

I've seen the Rackets, Research Fields etc that form the different Paths for a class. My hope is that the new archetypes/paths are not replacements for these but build on them. A Hospitaller Champion could be taken by any Champion. A Cat Burglar Rogue could be limited to the Thief Racket but either the Ruffian or Scoundrel should be able to become a Corsair.

For something like a Skulls and Shackles campaign where everyone should be a Pirate, it'd be nice if there were thematic Archetypes (published with APs in the Players Guide perhaps) where every character got access to the pool and the different feats could be bought by any of the characters as substitute Class Feats or Skill Feats. Maybe have the thematic feats work similar to the Dedications, without the restriction that you must pick 2 feats before starting a new Dedication?

[breithauptclan]

BishopMcQ wrote:

Where do they mention Archetypes for changing class features? Was that on one of the Twitch streams?

In the general introduction to archetypes.

Quote:

Two special kinds of archetypes are designated by the class and multiclass traits. The archetypes in this book are all multiclass archetypes.

[Shisumo]

The 3rd book of Age of Ashes should give us our first look at an archetype that changes class features for 2e.

[Perpdepog]

Shisumo wrote:

The 3rd book of Age of Ashes should give us our first look at an archetype that changes class features for 2e.

Just what I need; more temptations for spending all my money on PF2 PDFs, lol.