Slamy Mcbiteo
|
not sure it is called out but looking at the minion trait I would think it is a separate creature and would not get your multi attack penalty
minion (trait) Minions are creatures that directly serve another creature. A creature with this trait can use only 2 actions per turn and can’t use reactions. Your minion acts on your turn in combat, once per turn, when you spend an action to issue it commands. For an animal companion, you Command an Animal; for a minion that’s a spell or magic item effect, like a summoned minion, you Sustain a Spell or Sustain
an Activation; if not otherwise specified, you issue a verbal command, a single action with the auditory and concentrate traits. If given no commands, minions use no actions except to defend themselves or to escape obvious harm. If left unattended for long enough, typically 1 minute, mindless minions usually don’t act, animals follow their instincts, and sapient minions act how they please.
Slamy Mcbiteo
|
It does not get your penalty UNLESS it is a mount
CRB page 478 is where this is discussed...just for reference
Mounted Attacks
You and your mount fight as a unit. Consequently, you
share a multiple attack penalty. For example, if you Strike
and then Command an Animal to have your mount Strike,
your mount’s attack takes a –5 multiple attack penalty.
| Aservan |
On a related note does anyone understand the reasoning behind the Mount trait for animal companions?
Right now only Horses are big enough to act as mounts anyway. By the time a character has invested enough class feats in his companion (typically two more for a total of three) to make it mountable, it seems churlish to make a player pay yet another tax to have a non-boring mount. Anyone who doesn't want a character to ride bears, saber-tooth tigers, or dinosaurs is too dull for me to game with. It's friggin fantasy. I can ride a horse in real life.
Right now the goblin or halfling who wants to ride a canine is punished for that choice. It won't have the mount trait per RAW. Animal training doesn't help as it only pertains to teaching a critter actions.
Is that supposed to cover a mount? Acting as a mount is kind of like an action, but isn't per the rules. It's a trait.
Is there any reason to keep the mount trait, rather than just ignoring its existence? Is it fair to ask a player to have Animal Trainer just so they can teach their companions to be mounts?
| David knott 242 |
The lack of the mount trait prevents an animal companion from carrying a rider and using its Support benefit in the same turn.
Take a look at the Support benefits. You may notice that the horse is the only animal companion whose Support benefit is geared towards helping out its rider in combat. For most other animal companions, that benefit is geared towards making its own attacks -- in other words, something that works much better if it is not carrying a rider.
| Aservan |
David, you're not wrong. For a land critter you're only losing the attack benefit of Support.
My question is why?
What's the reason you can't? Why make the game less fun? Will it make a character too powerful if a champion mounted on a bear with a lance can do a little more damage from the bear's Support Benefit?
You're talking about 3.5 or 7 extra damage per round in most cases. That's too powerful?
Why are the rules punishing a Lizardman character who'd like to ride a dinosaur? It's completely within the setting. Why can't the small character synergize with his faithful hound mount? You can buy a riding dog in the main book, but it can't be your animal companion
What about flying mounts? If you make your bird companion savage it will become Large. But you still can't ride it.
Lame.
Isn't that practically the whole point of making a flying companion Savage? Who doesn't want to ride a Giant Eagle? I'm pretty sure that the most seminal work of fantasy has halflings and giant eagles flying together.
In my games I will ignore the existence of the mount rule. I think it makes the game less fun. I'm wondering if there are consequences that I don't foresee.
| Castilliano |
If your the GM Aservan you could always make a ranger/druid feat that gives the animal companion the mount trait and reduce the negative for MAP by 5 for the mount for one action. That doesn't seem too powerful to me.
It is.
It takes more than that to break the game thankfully, but getting Mount & giving it an effective +5 to its attack is too powerful. For a feat, not for what the game can handle.The easy answer is to make it two feats:
1. Mount plus some modest bonus. Given PF1, maybe a +1 circumstance to your mount's AC while ridden or a Reaction you get to give +2.
2. The no-MAP feat for one attack. (Still more powerful than normal.)
Paizo will probably create some tricky combo action where you and the mount attack at the same MAP (perhaps vs. the same person), but it counts as two attacks for future MAP.
Or maybe one where the mount gets to attack as part of your attack action (to alleviate action economy issues), but still has bad MAP.
If there's an Archetype for all of this, it'll lead toward that sort of stuff: specific action sequences that blend your actions w/ the mount's for action efficiency. Pure bonuses like counteracting MAP will be rare, and even then tied to some specific action, not all Strikes.
I think.
So there might be a feat where your mount gets 3 actions, all to Stride, while you get an attack action at the end w/ bonus damage (likely +1/weapon die, which seems about the average one can expect). So an abnormal set of actions opens up, and with a bonus too.
| shroudb |
the reason why mounts suffer from your MAP and not the other animal companions is pretty simple really, it's cause of the action economy:
when a "mount" moves he basically also moves his rider, hence it's a 1 action saver for him (he doesn't have to stride)
Most (all?) feats/abilities so far follow the same paradigm:
flurry/twin takedown/hunter aim vs double slice/most "maneuver" feats:
flurry and etc: saves 1 action but suffers MAP
double slice and etc: don't save an action but doesn't suffer MAP
Similarly:
mount: saves one action but suffers MAP
non-mount: doesn't save actions but doesn't suffer MAP either