I finished Crimson Throne (great ride), but in retrospect I'm curious about the intended rule for respect points. The rule says:
When you succeed at a check to defeat by 20 or more, gain 1 respect point.
To be clear, if a monster has a check to defeat of 17, my final result has to be 37+ to earn a respect point? Not just a final result of 20 or higher?
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37+, confirmed. It's one of those few times where you're encouraged to throw everything at a check, to overkill it in an impressive way.
Awesome, thanks.
I suspect a number of new players are going to get this wrong, but hopefully my foretelling of doom is incorrect.
I'm sorry for the slight off-topic, but given how Core has been retooled *specifically* against overkilling check - is there some test data or at least speculative math - how many Respect Points would players be expected to average in AD4?
The list of AD4 rewards you can "shop" with RP is enourmous, but given the steep price (5RP per item) I dont expect anything beyond 2-3 items is realistic, and even that seems pushing it a bit.
For what it's worth, I earned 9 total respect points across 3 characters (Hakon, Quinn, Varian). This was after playing incorrectly for 1.5 scenarios, then trying to remember how many rolls exceeded by 20 instead of just being 20+.
I was able to purchase a single item with 9 points, which was a loot weapon.
An easy source of respect points is the Honor-Tested scourge, which multiple characters can get in each scenario. Only 1 of the purchases (Krojun) is available exclusively for respect points, so the minimum you really "need" (as defined by a completionist) is 5.
In testing, it varies a lot by group size and party composition; bigger groups are more likely to be able to purchase a couple extra boons. Expect 3-5 points per character. If you are trying to earn the >20 respect points, our experience is that you can easily do so once per scenario, and likely do so 2 or 3 times. In an optimized group that is actively burning resources to get overkills and not constrained by the hourglass, I suspect they'll manage it 3-6 times per scenario.
I have the test data from one test I played by post available to me now, so let's see.
5 person group: Quinn, Kess, Hakon, Varian, Seelah
All fairly experienced. 1 person actively trying to get overkill respect, everyone else mostly saving it for the final fight.
4A: 4 respect points earned for overkill, 3 for Honor-Tested
4B: 3 overkill, 1 HT
4C: 3 overkill, 0 HT
4D: 4 overkill, 5 HT
Total of 23.
Thank you, guys, for the data :) I admit to being one of those "completionists" and for me that also means getting those Supporter Feats maxed. I can now rest easy, however, that my game won't be much derailed by trying to grind up the necessary points :)
One thing I have been wondering about here, do you still get respect points from honor-tested if you fail a scenario? As far as i can tell by the rules you do, but having failed multiple times on the first two scenarios I now have 15 respect from just HT. Seemed a bit much.
Somewhere, a Shoanti recounts a story. "And then the outlander dove into the fiery gullet of Cindermaw the Clan-Eater. Again. And Again. Three times! Each time, they came out, still on fire. One time they passed out in exhaustion. Another time, Cindermaw ran away with indigestion. Still, the outlander persisted."
Wide-eyed, the Shoanti warriors exchanged glances, knowing that this was a feat they could not hope to match.
Yeah, it's cool. Enjoy the Respect boons you get later.
One thing I have been wondering about here, do you still get respect points from honor-tested if you fail a scenario?
Good call. The answer should probably be no, otherwise you'd have a trivial exploit. You could gain an infinite number of RPs by starting a scenario, letting each player encounter a monster, quitting, then restarting the scenario. Etc. In which case you might as well save yourself the trouble and let everyone start with a million RPs.
I'd add that the only scenarios that I failed in the entire CotCT campaign were scenarios 4A and 4D. So this was relevant in my campaign as well.
Finally, I should mention that most of the party's RPs were from being Honor-Tested. There weren't many rolls to defeat banes that were exceeded by 20+. There were a couple, though.
In one scenario I may have forgotten that being Honor-Tested provided RPs - so my RP total may be a tiny bit low.
Without going too much into depth; using only Core+Curse characters, I've seen no real problem maxing out enough Respect Points for all of the rewards with the tables I've played on and observed.
It's not exactly just handed to you, of course; but if you're willing to actually go for it (so rather than finishing a scenario with 14 turns remaining, go and spend some turns and resources massively overkilling checks, for example) then there shouldn't be any reason you can't get enough (without replaying scenarios).
At home, we have finished 4C (so one scenario to go) and we've earned 17 respect points so far. This is a three-player game with Kess, Lem, and Ezren. We didn't alter our typical play style, other than to go big against banes whenever we felt like we had a decent chance of pulling off a Respect Point.
One thing I have been wondering about here, do you still get respect points from honor-tested if you fail a scenario? As far as i can tell by the rules you do, but having failed multiple times on the first two scenarios I now have 15 respect from just HT. Seemed a bit much.Somewhere, a Shoanti recounts a story. "And then the outlander dove into the fiery gullet of Cindermaw the Clan-Eater. Again. And Again. Three times! Each time, they came out, still on fire. One time they passed out in exhaustion. Another time, Cindermaw ran away with indigestion. Still, the outlander persisted."
Wide-eyed, the Shoanti warriors exchanged glances, knowing that this was a feat they could not hope to match.
Yeah, it's cool. Enjoy the Respect boons you get later.
I assume the same thing applies if you replay a scenario in Sanctioned PACS?
(It gets very hard to get to 9 otherwise, I think, since you track only your own Respect.)
It is not expected or intended that many people get 9 respect points; it is supposed to be a real challenge. You could get there with replay, of course.
If I remeber well, in a party of 5, each of us got 2 to 4 respect points during the AD4 scenarios; that was enough to make a fun game and not being over-achiever in a way that the following scenarios would be too easy.