Question about riding a bird animal companion


Rules Discussion


I have been looking into making a goblin ranger/alchemist with a bird animal companion (similar to the archetype for goblins alchemists in Pathfinder 1) but I came across this rule on page 214:

"Riding Animal Companions
You or an ally can ride your animal companion as long as
it is at least one size larger than the rider. If it is carrying a
rider, the animal companion can use only its land Speed, and
it can’t move and Support you on the same turn. However, if
your companion has the mount special ability, it’s especially
suited for riding and ignores both of these restrictions."

According to this you can ride a bird animal companion larger than you but it won't be able to fly while you're mounted. So I looked into skills and feats and Rider feat only seems to work to ride animals that aren't an animal companion and it doesn't seem you can use Nature skill to teach a bird animal companion how to be a mount.

Does this mean we will have to wait until devs come up with a flying animal companion with the mount special ability such as a pegasus or a griffon? or has someone figured out how to fly on an animal companion?


This is a good question. As of now there doesn't seem to be anything official for riding an animal companion to use its fly speed. I'm going to be GMing a one-shot tonight and one of my players wants to play a druid goblin with a bird animal companion. We'll be playing at level 7, so his bird will be at least one size larger than his goblin, however because of that "Riding Animal Companions" rule he technically can't ride it to use its fly speed.

However, from a mechanical standpoint, a mature bird has a strength modifier of 3, which would make it able to carry 8 Bulk before becoming Encumbered. A typical small sized creature (like a goblin) is considered to be 3 Bulk before you account for its equipment. Tack for a companion is 1 Bulk. So if the bird is wearing tack and a small PC doesn't go over 4 Bulk with their equipment, they'd be within the mature bird companion's Bulk limit before making it Encumbered.

As a GM, I personally don't see anything wrong with allowing my player to ride his bird, so long as they stay within the companion's bulk limit. Most enemies will still be able to retaliate without issue during encounters, unless they have zero ranged capability. By level 7 certain classes will already have access to spells or equipment that allows them to gain a fly speed anyway, so I don't see anything broken about riding a flying companion. They'll only be able to do so effectively outdoors or in larger/taller spaces. In addition, that player will have to keep spending actions to Command an Animal in order to keep benefiting from their companion's fly speed, not to mention Nature checks if they don't have the Ride general feat.

The entry for the Roc in the Bestiary hints at the possibility of capturing and training a Roc as a "flying mount," so I don't really see the harm in allowing a player to ride their flying companion.

Another thing to note is that while flying, that bird companion will more than likely be prioritized over the player for ranged attacks. And the bird is somewhat squishy, being only at 60 hit points at level 7. A character putting themselves in that situation might make it easier for an enemy to "kill two birds with one stone".


I'd probably let the bird, say, carry him across a crevasse. But in combat? He'd have some penalties beyond the inherent issues you mention.


A champion has the possibility of having a companion.

And the possibility for the one to fly is given by lvl 20 from a class feat.

We are talking about a standard situation which sees a champion with a horse. A companion with the mount ability.

If there could be the possibility to have it even without feats, then there will be some issues.

Remember also that medium and small are now the same in terms of everything

Armor
Weapons
Checks
Etc...

So the fact that a class is small couldn't be exploited no more.


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To elaborate;

Magical abilities that enable flight are just that - magical. They need not take into account any sort of realism. Flight by mundane means, however, is much more limited. I think if you ask any pilot whether weight matters, it will be confirmed that it doesn't take a lot of weight, or even just improperly balanced weight, to prevent flight. That, even if the same load can still enable rolling around on the tarmac just fine.

That's why I'd probably allow a bird one size larger than its rider to struggle with it across a crevasse (depending on total load, possibly with a chance of failure). Anything more than that would quickly exhaust the bird, and both bird and rider would be sitting ducks in combat because speed and maneuverability would be nil.

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TarrentheShaded wrote:

This is a good question. As of now there doesn't seem to be anything official for riding an animal companion to use its fly speed. I'm going to be GMing a one-shot tonight and one of my players wants to play a druid goblin with a bird animal companion. We'll be playing at level 7, so his bird will be at least one size larger than his goblin, however because of that "Riding Animal Companions" rule he technically can't ride it to use its fly speed.

However, from a mechanical standpoint, a mature bird has a strength modifier of 3, which would make it able to carry 8 Bulk before becoming Encumbered. A typical small sized creature (like a goblin) is considered to be 3 Bulk before you account for its equipment. Tack for a companion is 1 Bulk. So if the bird is wearing tack and a small PC doesn't go over 4 Bulk with their equipment, they'd be within the mature bird companion's Bulk limit before making it Encumbered.

As a GM, I personally don't see anything wrong with allowing my player to ride his bird, so long as they stay within the companion's bulk limit. Most enemies will still be able to retaliate without issue during encounters, unless they have zero ranged capability. By level 7 certain classes will already have access to spells or equipment that allows them to gain a fly speed anyway, so I don't see anything broken about riding a flying companion. They'll only be able to do so effectively outdoors or in larger/taller spaces. In addition, that player will have to keep spending actions to Command an Animal in order to keep benefiting from their companion's fly speed, not to mention Nature checks if they don't have the Ride general feat.

The entry for the Roc in the Bestiary hints at the possibility of capturing and training a Roc as a "flying mount," so I don't really see the harm in allowing a player to ride their flying companion.

Another thing to note is that while flying, that bird companion will more than likely be prioritized over the player for ranged attacks. And the bird is somewhat...

Note that an animal companion is a minion, and you naturally have the ability to spend an action to control your minion, getting two actions. Others pointed that out and said, that would likely mean you are not supposed to need to roll to control your animal companion, since you don't for other minions.

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