PF2E Property Runes and Dealing damage on a Failure.

[Princess Animal Parts]

Been exploring monster weaknesses and had a thought that I wanted others to chime in on and discuss. Let's say a creature has weakness 5 to fire/good , you're a fighter with and you have Advantageous Assault or Certain Strike (Press Attacks that deal damage on a failure), and your press attack deals damage by missing and it has a flaming/holy rune. Does the creature weak to fire/good take the additional 5 damage or does the creature take the normal listed failure damage? Some runes specify the strike need be successful and some don't, just as some,but not all of the actions, denote that the the property rune damage is excluded while others do not.

[Kitsune Kune]

I would personally rule it, as if the property runes do not specify they must hit, then they add their effect, and damage type, to things like Certain Strike.

[shroudb]

i'd say no:

weakness/resistances are calulated AFTER you add your damage IF the damage you dealt was of that type.

since with certain/advantageous you don't roll the property rune, you don't get to deal the elemental damage.

so when you reach the "calculate resistance/vulnerability" stage, there isn't any elemental damage to trigger them.

to be more precise:
it's:
step 1: roll the damage
step 2: determine damage type
step 3: calculate resistances/weakness
step 4: deal the damage

you've lost the property runes back from step 1 since you don't roll them, so by the time you reach step 3 there isn't anything triggering those resistances/weaknesses

[Edge93]

Oof, this didnt even click before but that's right. That makes Certain Strike even less exploitable. Huh.

[Princess Animal Parts]

Certain Strike seemed the least likely to have impact because it's the most explicit in how it functions. The outliers I'm more interested are as follows: While the elemental damage runes specify that the strike must be successful, The alignment damage runes do not, and state they do additional damage to the opposed aligned creatures. While Advantageous Assault deals fixed damage, it does not have Certain Strikes exclusion of property runes. Lastly, Brutal Finish actually deals weapon damage dice on a failure, therefore would the holy property apply then? My prompt for this is more that on page 444 there is a sidebar where more specific rules are state to trump more general ones. Is damaging an evil creature with a holy weapon more specific than dealing partial weapon damage on a failure through a mildly more general use of a feat or does this never come into play?

[Princess Animal Parts]

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