Chirurgeon Alchemist and Healer's kit

[SuperBidi]

Hi everyone,

I have a very weird rules question:
Chirurgeon Alchemist can use Craft instead of Medicine.
Healer's kit gives a bonus to Medicine when treating wounds.
Alchemist's tools give only a bonus when creating alchemical items.

If I treat someone's wounds, I can use Craft instead of Medicine. Can I get a bonus to this check by using the proper tools? If yes, do I need a Healer's kit or Alchemist's tools?

[kaid]

I had that exact same question. Given how much issues alchemists have with bulk as is having to have yet another 1 bulk item to just function seems punishing. Given you use alchemy crafting for the check my gut is they are using the alchemy kit instead of the healer kit but I couldn't find anything to confirm that.

Also there is a mutagen that boosts your medicine skill but does that bonus apply when using your alchemy crafting FOR a medicine check? If not it seems like the main people who would want that mutagen the chirurgeons have no use for it.

[Alchemical Wonder]

The entry for the Healer’s Tools say that the kit is necessary to make Administer First Aid, Treat Disease, Treat Poison, and Treat Wounds actions and gives an item bonus when making checks for those actions but doesn’t specify only Medicine skill checks.

Best I can understand, Chirurgeon’s use Healer’s Tools and gain the item bonus from them but it would be superseded by a Cognitive Mutagen’s item bonus rather than one from a Serene Mutagen because it’s a Craft check rather than a Medicine check.

[Azurespark]

A chirurgeon can use craft instead of medicine for any of medicine's uses. But all of those uses require healer's tools.

kaid wrote:

I had that exact same question. Given how much issues alchemists have with bulk as is having to have yet another 1 bulk item to just function seems punishing. Given you use alchemy crafting for the check my gut is they are using the alchemy kit instead of the healer kit but I couldn't find anything to confirm that.

Also there is a mutagen that boosts your medicine skill but does that bonus apply when using your alchemy crafting FOR a medicine check? If not it seems like the main people who would want that mutagen the chirurgeons have no use for it.

I would say no, because you are making a craft check, not a medicine check. But you could use a cognitive mutagen to gain a bonus on crafting checks.

[kaid]

Boy if the chirurgeons also need healing kits in addition to alchemy kits better pump str to lug all your stuff around because you are starting with a floor of 3 bulk in kits just to function.

[shroudb]

kaid wrote:

Boy if the chirurgeons also need healing kits in addition to alchemy kits better pump str to lug all your stuff around because you are starting with a floor of 3 bulk in kits just to function.

he also still needs to keep raising medicine since all the added effects (allowance to roll to heal for more, treat wounds skill feats, etc) all still require medicine.

the ability really is: if you raise 2 (out of your 3...) skills instead of one, you roll with your Int bonus instead of your Wis bonus.

it's kinda... not impressive, to say the least.

[kaid]

Well given you are pumping int generally for an alchemist the skill issue should not be that big of a deal to keep bumping it along but yes it seems kind of a chunky interaction. Honestly for the chirurgeons they should just count your alchemy AS the medicine skill so you pump the one thing and use your alchemy kit only to do it. It would make sense you are basically coming at healing from a different direction.

[shroudb]

kaid wrote:

Well given you are pumping int generally for an alchemist the skill issue should not be that big of a deal to keep bumping it along but yes it seems kind of a chunky interaction. Honestly for the chirurgeons they should just count your alchemy AS the medicine skill so you pump the one thing and use your alchemy kit only to do it. It would make sense you are basically coming at healing from a different direction.

Int has nothing to do with how many skills you can raise. INt only gives base skill. Only your level matters for raises.

regardless if you have 8 Int or 24, you can only raise the same exact amount of skills (3 skills to legendary). (rogues excluded)