Benefit: A rogue with this talent may treat her initiative roll as a 20 for a surprise round, regardless of her initiative, but she may only take an attack action with a ranged weapon. Her normal initiative roll is used in subsequent rounds. If two or more rogues possess this talent, their initiative determines the order in which they act, but they all go before any other creature. If a rogue is prevented from acting in the surprise round, this talent has no effect.
Two out of five of my groups says this GIVES a surprise round. While me, another, and the dm say the wording doesn't.
"For a surprise round" is the phrase they say gives them a surprise round. While I disagreed, I gave the example: "I will give you a nick for every penny I give you. Does that mean you have 6 cents now? Because I won't give you penny." They said "That wording has nothing to do with this."
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Snap Shot wrote: Benefit: A rogue with this talent may treat her initiative roll as a 20 for a surprise round, regardless of her initiative, but she may only take an attack action with a ranged weapon. Her normal initiative roll is used in subsequent rounds. If two or more rogues possess this talent, their initiative determines the order in which they act, but they all go before any other creature. If a rogue is prevented from acting in the surprise round, this talent has no effect. As I read this there is no specific language that says the rogue always gets a surprise round. I lack the time to research, but if memory serves there is a talent, feat, trait, or something that does allow the possessor to get a surprise round every time. Rogues have many ways to achieve surprise to be granted action within a surprise round, so maybe the author assumed that would be the case more often than not. RAW, I do not see automatic surprise round in this talent.
I will also add that with the language of this talent, the rogue can take another action in the surprise round as normal by disregarding this talent should they choose to do something other than make a ranged attack. They would just function normally as in any other surprise round they are allowed to act in.
Thedmstrikes wrote: Snap Shot wrote: Benefit: A rogue with this talent may treat her initiative roll as a 20 for a surprise round, regardless of her initiative, but she may only take an attack action with a ranged weapon. Her normal initiative roll is used in subsequent rounds. If two or more rogues possess this talent, their initiative determines the order in which they act, but they all go before any other creature. If a rogue is prevented from acting in the surprise round, this talent has no effect. As I read this there is no specific language that says the rogue always gets a surprise round. I lack the time to research, but if memory serves there is a talent, feat, trait, or something that does allow the possessor to get a surprise round every time. Rogues have many ways to achieve surprise to be granted action within a surprise round, so maybe the author assumed that would be the case more often than not. RAW, I do not see automatic surprise round in this talent.
I will also add that with the language of this talent, the rogue can take another action in the surprise round as normal by disregarding this talent should they choose to do something other than make a ranged attack. They would just function normally as in any other surprise round they are allowed to act in. Thank you, this helps a lot.
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LordGreyscar wrote: Benefit: A rogue with this talent may treat her initiative roll as a 20 for a surprise round, regardless of her initiative, but she may only take an attack action with a ranged weapon. Her normal initiative roll is used in subsequent rounds. If two or more rogues possess this talent, their initiative determines the order in which they act, but they all go before any other creature. If a rogue is prevented from acting in the surprise round, this talent has no effect. I agree with Thedmstrikes, it doesn't give a surprise round. It even says there are times when you won't get one (bolded).
The 2 ways I know of to get an auto-surprise round would be to take at least one level in Sohei Monk, or to take at laest one level in Wizard with the Divination specialist school (or Foresight sub-school I think).
It doesn't allow for a surprise round, just allows one to act during it.
I dont see anything in wizard divination that gives a free surprise round either, but Mr Charisma may have meant act in a surprise round not get a free one.
Cavall wrote: It doesn't allow for a surprise round, just allows one to act during it.
I dont see anything in wizard divination that gives a free surprise round either, but Mr Charisma may have meant act in a surprise round not get a free one.
Oh. Yup that's what I meant.
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