My First 2E Character - Did I make any obvious mistakes?

[Ravingdork]

I just finished making my first 2E character and I'm looking for someone to help check my work. Did I make any obvious mistakes? Any math errors?

Also, do you have suggestions for improving the character sheet layout/presentation? I'm currently trying to make it resemble the monster stat blocks of the Bestiary, while also trying to include all the necessary PC information, but it's tricky since the monsters were made with different rules and often don't have many abilities in common with PCs.

Anyways, any help would be most appreciated.

[Kyrone]

I don't see any glaring errors, it was multiclassed twice right? One in Rogue and the other Wizard, on of them using the ancestry 9 lvl feat.

[Ravingdork]

Kyrone wrote:

I don't see any glaring errors, it was multiclassed twice right? One in Rogue and the other Wizard, on of them using the ancestry 9 lvl feat.

Yes, that's right.

Since I made the character at level 12 (it's a 1E character being updated to the new rule set) I'm chiefly concerned with the order of things. If I were to build this from level 1, wold I be able to make the same choices? Or did I pick up a feat or two I couldn't possibly have because I wouldn't have legally met the feat requirements at the levels I would have been able to pick them up.

Does retraining get around that at all? If so, then we can just assume that retraining made things work at later levels in the character's career.

Thanks for going over it, Kyrone.

[Kyrone]

Wizard Dedication lvl 2
Basic Arcana => Conceal Spell lvl 4
Advanced Bloodline lvl 6,
Occult Evolution lvl 8
Rogue Dedication (Ancestry)
Skill Mastery lvl 10
Magic Sense lvl 12

Yeah it looks fine.

[lochinvar1971]

I like the layout, I haven't begun to tinker with any kind of formalized sheet yet.

As to any glaring errors:

Your untrained skills are too high. They are strictly the bonus from your stat, you do not get to add your level

[Ravingdork]

lochinvar1971 wrote:

I like the layout, I haven't begun to tinker with any kind of formalized sheet yet.

Thanks. I'm still trying to formalize it as best I can, but at the moment there's very little for me to go off of. Let me know if you have any suggestions! :)

lochinvar1971 wrote:

Your untrained skills are too high. They are strictly the bonus from your stat, you do not get to add your level

There's a feat for that. ;P

Clever Improvisor You’ve learned how to handle situations when you’re out of your depth. You gain the Untrained Improvisation general feat. In addition, you can attempt skill actions that normally require you to be trained, even if you are untrained.

Untrained Improvisation You’ve learned how to handle situations when you’re out of your depth. Your proficiency bonus to untrained skill checks is equal to half your level instead of +0. If you’re 7th level or higher, the bonus increases to your full level instead. This doesn’t allow you to use the skill’s trained actions.

[lochinvar1971]

Ravingdork wrote:

There's a feat for that. ;P

Oh, nice. My apologizes. It looks there is another must have to work in.

[Deadmanwalking]

The rules mostly look fine as far as I can tell, but a lot of your formatting is a tad weird with weird bolded or uncapitalized words.

You should have two more languages, though. You get a bonus one per point of Int Mod, and Humans are supposed to start with two per Mark Seifter, so that's 5 languages.

[Ravingdork]

Deadmanwalking wrote:

The rules mostly look fine as far as I can tell, but a lot of your formatting is a tad weird with weird bolded or uncapitalized words.

You should have two more languages, though. You get a bonus one per point of Int Mod, and Humans are supposed to start with two per Mark Seifter, so that's 5 languages.

Thanks!

Can you please cite specific examples of the weird formatting? I was following what I was seeing in the Bestiary statblocks.

One thing I was already aware of is that "Interact" is always capitalized, whereas other traits right next to it often aren't. I have no idea why they did it that way.

[Deadmanwalking]

About half your 'Class Feats and Abilities' are uncapitalized while the other half are capitalized, and looking at it again, I was wrong about the bolding.

[Ravingdork]

Character Update: Switched out Magic Sense for Advanced Arcana/Silent Spell.

Now I can be invisible, silent, and still cast spells without any obvious manifestations or sounds to give me away. XD

Deadmanwalking wrote:

About half your 'Class Feats and Abilities' are uncapitalized while the other half are capitalized, and looking at it again, I was wrong about the bolding.

Ah, got it. Thanks. That was actually deliberate on my part. I've observed that in 2E feat names always appear in Title Case whereas class abilities do not.

So on my sheets feats all have Title Case, and class abilities are always lower case (unless at the beginning of a sentence or something).

I'll have another look at the official books to make sure my observations are correct and consistent.

[Ravingdork]

Deadmanwalking wrote:

You should have two more languages, though. You get a bonus one per point of Int Mod, and Humans are supposed to start with two per Mark Seifter, so that's 5 languages.

I don't see anything about 2 languages in the books for humans. Where did Mark say that?

[Deadmanwalking]

Ravingdork wrote:

Deadmanwalking wrote:

You should have two more languages, though. You get a bonus one per point of Int Mod, and Humans are supposed to start with two per Mark Seifter, so that's 5 languages.

I don't see anything about 2 languages in the books for humans. Where did Mark say that?

On one of the livestreams. The extra language was taken out accidentally when they were adding the 'one language per Int mod' change.

For additional evidence, if you need it, the PFS pregens all give humans the extra language.

[Ravingdork]

Went over my skills again, and it looks like I had too few skills and too many at Master level. I also had one less class feat than I should have (due to the Natural Ambition ancestry feat), so I added Familiar. I've adjusted them accordingly (the original link above should reflect these updates).

Here's a breakdown of feat and skill progression (to better help you help me).

[Deadmanwalking]

I think the previous version was legal due to Skill Mastery, though I suppose it depends if you need a specific level 12 Class Feat.

You can have three Master level Skills at 12th level with Skill Mastery, anyway (Expert 3rd, Expert 5th, raise one of those to Master each at 7th and 9th, Expert at 11th, take Skill Mastery at 12th, raise the Expert Skill to ).

[Ravingdork]

Deadmanwalking wrote:

I think the previous version was legal due to Skill Mastery, though I suppose it depends if you need a specific level 12 Class Feat.

You can have three Master level Skills at 12th level with Skill Mastery, anyway (Expert 3rd, Expert 5th, raise one of those to Master each at 7th and 9th, Expert at 11th, take Skill Mastery at 12th, raise the Expert Skill to ).

I actually found a way to get four by 12th-level, but I've opted not to in this case, because it would mean not having certain skills at the levels I need them to be to be able to make certain prerequisites.

If you look at the breakdown skill sheet above (which I've modified since posting it earlier), you will see that it is possible to have four.

Had I chosen Crafting with Skilled Heritage, and put my 11th-level Skill Increase into it--rather than into Diplomacy as shown--I could have been at Master level in Crafting, Deception, Intimidation, and Stealth by 11th-level.

I really wanted Glad-Hand though, so I ultimately didn't go that route.

[shroudb]

i see that your telekinetic projectile attack is the same as your spell attack.

haven't run the numbers on your sheet, but do note that this cantrip NOT a spell attack but a regular attack (hence using your dex)

[Xenocrat]

shroudb wrote:

i see that your telekinetic projectile attack is the same as your spell attack.

haven't run the numbers on your sheet, but do note that this cantrip NOT a spell attack but a regular attack (hence using your dex)

If that's the case please note telekinetic projectile isn't a listed weapon of any type, so you're not proficient in it and only roll your Dex, no level or proficiency bonus. Good luck!

Alternatively, it's an improvised weapon. Improvised weapons give a -2 penalty, but don't say what proficiency, if any, to use before adding that -2.

[shroudb]

Xenocrat wrote:

shroudb wrote:

i see that your telekinetic projectile attack is the same as your spell attack.

haven't run the numbers on your sheet, but do note that this cantrip NOT a spell attack but a regular attack (hence using your dex)

If that's the case please note telekinetic projectile isn't a listed weapon of any type, so you're not proficient in it and only roll your Dex, no level or proficiency bonus. Good luck!

Alternatively, it's an improvised weapon. Improvised weapons give a -2 penalty, but don't say what proficiency, if any, to use before adding that -2.

not sure how it's supposed to work, but what it says is this:

"You hurl a loose, unattended object that is within range and
that has 1 Bulk or less at the target. Make a ranged attack
against the target."

personally i would treat it like it's a simple weapon, with the proficiencies for that.

(until/if it get's errata to be a ranged spell attack instead)

[Deadmanwalking]

I'd say it's likely a spell attack already and just didn't get worded properly, and the lack of anything about what type of proficiency it uses is strong evidence for that. Which I believe is Xenocrat's point.

[shroudb]

Deadmanwalking wrote:

I'd say it's likely a spell attack already and just didn't get worded properly, and the lack of anything about what type of proficiency it uses is strong evidence for that. Which I believe is Xenocrat's point.

could be... that "day 1 patch" though can't come soon enough

[Xenocrat]

shroudb wrote:

Xenocrat wrote:

shroudb wrote:

i see that your telekinetic projectile attack is the same as your spell attack.

haven't run the numbers on your sheet, but do note that this cantrip NOT a spell attack but a regular attack (hence using your dex)

If that's the case please note telekinetic projectile isn't a listed weapon of any type, so you're not proficient in it and only roll your Dex, no level or proficiency bonus. Good luck!

Alternatively, it's an improvised weapon. Improvised weapons give a -2 penalty, but don't say what proficiency, if any, to use before adding that -2.

not sure how it's supposed to work, but what it says is this:

"You hurl a loose, unattended object that is within range and
that has 1 Bulk or less at the target. Make a ranged attack
against the target."

personally i would treat it like it's a simple weapon, with the proficiencies for that.

Sucks to be a wizard!

[Ravingdork]

There are ranged spell attacks just as there are melee spell attacks. I really don't think there is a problem there.

[shroudb]

Ravingdork wrote:

There are ranged spell attacks just as there are melee spell attacks. I really don't think there is a problem there.

the important thing is the distinction the game makes between a ranged attack and a ranged spell attack.

in particular it goes to great lengths to call out that "ranged attacks" are NOT "spell attacks", but "spell attacks" are a completely different thing with different rules. And yes, those "spell attacks" can be both ranged and melee, but the important keyword isn't that, but the "spell".

to be exact, it calls out that there are only 3 types of attacks: melee attacks, ranged attacks, and spell attacks.

telekinetic projectile only mentions ranged attack, and by definition a ranged attack is not a spell attack by the rules.

it could be a typo, it could be that they were trying to give a cantrip for off-casters/archetypes, it could be that they were trying to give a normal ranged option and not a spell one (like claw focus powers and etc are magical melee options)

it could be a range of things, but as raw, the one thing it cannot be is a spell attack.

[Ravingdork]

Suppose I'll make another thread to address that particular issue.

EDIT: Here's the thread.