Bucklers and Wands

[baggageboy]

This is an old topic, but one I haven't seen properly resolved. When a character holds and activates a wand in the hand of an arm strapped with a buckler does the character lose the AC bonus from the buckler for that round?

Rules for Wands

Rules for Bucklers

[avr]

Pointing a wand in the general direction of the target isn't a somatic component or a weapon, so by RAW you keep the AC bonus. If you're using the wand to cast a spell with an attack roll like scorching ray I might insist on it but that's just me - not the rules.

[Roco]

avr wrote:

Pointing a wand in the general direction of the target isn't a somatic component or a weapon, so by RAW you keep the AC bonus. If you're using the wand to cast a spell with an attack roll like scorching ray I might insist on it but that's just me - not the rules.

For that matter, casting with somatic components, can't you just free action switch grip of weapon, cast spell, switch grip back? There's no rule saying you loose the use of a weapon hand if it was used to cast a spell.

It's why a wizard can use a two handed staff and just let go with one hand to cast but still get the use of the two handed weapon.

If that's not the case, how would someone using a shield and sword cast somatic spells but still keep their shield bonus and use their weapon? If there is a way?

[avr]

Roco wrote:

For that matter, casting with somatic components, can't you just free action switch grip of weapon, cast spell, switch grip back? There's no rule saying you loose the use of a weapon hand if it was used to cast a spell.

No, but the buckler has a specific rule saying if you use your buckler hand to cast a spell's somatic components you lose the AC bonus until your next turn.

Quote:

It's why a wizard can use a two handed staff and just let go with one hand to cast but still get the use of the two handed weapon.

If that's not the case, how would someone using a shield and sword cast somatic spells but still keep their shield bonus and use their weapon? If there is a way?

You're benefiting from the lack of rules with respect to light shields here. If a rule was to be made which was consistent with the treatment of bucklers it might well frown on passing your weapon to your shield hand, casting a spell with your weapon hand, then passing the weapon back to the weapon hand. No such rule exists.

And actually in PF2 they dropped all such rules and made somatic components unnecessary IIRC. Early in the playtest it was an action to switch hands or change your grip, and you needed a free hand for all spells, but they dropped that.

[Roco]

avr wrote:

Roco wrote:

For that matter, casting with somatic components, can't you just free action switch grip of weapon, cast spell, switch grip back? There's no rule saying you loose the use of a weapon hand if it was used to cast a spell.

No, but the buckler has a specific rule saying if you use your buckler hand to cast a spell's somatic components you lose the AC bonus until your next turn.

Quote:

It's why a wizard can use a two handed staff and just let go with one hand to cast but still get the use of the two handed weapon.

If that's not the case, how would someone using a shield and sword cast somatic spells but still keep their shield bonus and use their weapon? If there is a way?

You're benefiting from the lack of rules with respect to light shields here. If a rule was to be made which was consistent with the treatment of bucklers it might well frown on passing your weapon to your shield hand, casting a spell with your weapon hand, then passing the weapon back to the weapon hand. No such rule exists.

And actually in PF2 they dropped all such rules and made somatic components unnecessary IIRC. Early in the playtest it was an action to switch hands or change your grip, and you needed a free hand for all spells, but they dropped that.

For the better I think.

At the end of the day casters have it hard enough if they want to try and be melee fighters. From arcane spell failure chance, to really bad BAB or other class features that don't really help them in melee fights. Then there are divine casters, like Paladins or clerics. How does the iconic sword and board fighter of justice even get to cast spells? (cus I think you can't carry something in a hand wielding a light or heavy shield)

As for the free hand swap thing. There is a rule that swapping held items in your hand is a free action. The FAQ on it even references that wizard with a staff example. If we assume casting with somatic components was the designer's way of "using a weapon" but it's a spell, then it makes since using your shield hand in such a way would prevent its use, cus it's busy doing 3-6 seconds of hand waving, in that time stuff is attacking you.

But, that being said, there's no such rule for a weapon not being able to be used after said hand waving in that hand. (maybe rule you can't use AoO with weapons in that hand? )

But I've also seen people use a two handed weapon with reach, attack with it, then quick draw a dagger, attack with it (or a spike gauntlet) to hit something near them, then switch their grip back to two handed so they can still threaten out at range.

At the end of the day though, the name of the game is to have fun. Having such restrictions on hand waving preventing other features of your character from working does seem trivially unnecessary. I wouldn't even begin to call it game breaking. Let your caster fighter have his +2 shield bonus more often. There's plenty of ways around a shield.