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Yeah, that's my read on it, but it seems more like a way to get free boons. Say you defeat a zombie minion henchman, you can choose to either search the deck for a free boon, and/or choose to attempt to close.
Also, it eases the burden of the first scenario power, "You may not move from a Sacred location until it is closed." in that it allows you to potentially churn through the location faster than normal.
I'm not sure whether that is an "and" or an "or" though. That is, if you defeat the zombie, can you get a free boon and attempt to close? Or by choosing to boon hunt, are you forgoing any closing opportunity (unless, again, there are no boons, in which case, Wight).
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If the scenario lists a henchman with the word “closing,” you may attempt to close your location after defeating that henchman from that location.
Unlike pre-Core henchman templating, there is no mention of the word "immediately" in this rule, which means that you can decide the order in which to apply the Scenario power and the ability to close.
So, the following order is valid:
1. Attempt to close from Zombie Minion
2. If close attempt failed, examine the deck per Scenario power
3. If Scenario power has you encounter a Wight and you defeat it, attempt to close again
The following order is also valid:
1. Examine the deck per Scenario power
2. Maybe summon a Wight and maybe get a close attempt
3. If the location isn't already closed, attempt to close from Zombie Minion
Chief Technical Officer
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If the scenario lists a henchman with the word “closing,” you may attempt to close your location after defeating that henchman from that location.Unlike pre-Core henchman templating, there is no mention of the word "immediately" in this rule, which means that you can decide the order in which to apply the Scenario power and the ability to close.
As it happens, Mike and I discussed that very question on Sunday. To be honest, we can't recall if it was intentional, but we nonetheless think it's a probably an improvement. At least until somebody shows us a place where it's not.
It looks like an improvement.
I have to reread the new rules to see if now we can indeed play a card/power between ending the encounter and trying to close.
That may be critical to reach the conditions needed to close for example.
Say the closing condition is "bury a boon", and my hand is empty after the encounter where I defeat the hench. Now another character my play a card/power that let me draw/receive a card before I attempt to close.
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They still won’t be able to do that, as you’ll be in an encounter still. This would just let other reaction powers happen before attempting to close such as the topic of this thread. It also means that if you have the ability to explore again via some power, you no longer can make the close attempt before choosing whether to explore. Explores are always immediately whereas closing no longer is, so the explore power has to be resolved first (when both were immediately, you could choose the order).
They still won’t be able to do that, as you’ll be in an encounter still.
Not obvious re-reading the Core rules.
You are still (it seems) in the "Explore" step (although even that isn't obvious). But then, I can use "Cure" in between two encounters within the explore step, so why can't I use it between the encounter and the closing attempt (the only thing that was pre-Core preventing me from doing so was the "immediately" that meant I was forfeiting my closing attempt if I was doing anything else).IMHO.
You are not between steps of a turn after finishing the encounter with the closing henchman but before attempting to close, so there is no opportunity to play cards or use powers without restriction.
You can't play Cure between two encounters in the same explore step either. Each new exploration starts a new explore step, and you can play Cure between those two explore steps. But, if you have 2 encounters in a single explore step, there's no opportunity to play Cure between them.
Which, incidentally, is why the Core rulebook finally objectively states that each exploration is a new step - something that was confirmed on the forums years ago but never made it into a rulebook. RAW, you've never been able to legally use powers and boons between explorations until now, because you weren't in-between steps.
(In a single step you can also play cards, but only if they're relevant, and only one card per type.)
So, the following order is valid:
1. Attempt to close from Zombie Minion
2. If close attempt failed, examine the deck per Scenario power
3. If Scenario power has you encounter a Wight and you defeat it, attempt to close againThe following order is also valid:
1. Examine the deck per Scenario power
2. Maybe summon a Wight and maybe get a close attempt
3. If the location isn't already closed, attempt to close from Zombie Minion
We just finished 2A and had the same exact questions raised by the OP. (Sorry for the thread clutter; I should have looked more carefully first.)
I get that the two options, above, are allowed by the letter of the law. But given that 2A is a Core scenario (and therefore theoretically designed for brand new players), it would be easier if the scenario were errataed so that only one closing option was possible at a time. However that might work out, ruleswise.
I have a difficult time believing that a new player is going to figure out any of the issues raised in this thread. Know what I mean? All these points are extremely technical. I'm not sure that new players even understand that there are two separate ways of closing locations in this scenario, let alone the half-nested flowchart loops described above.
We barely figured it out ourselves, and that was only after we'd already finished scenario 2A - not during the game itself. We played that for any given henchman fight you had to choose one option or the other (close or search for a boon), not both.
P.S. Perhaps going back to closing being immediate fixes everything, and is therefore a good idea.
Apparently I have no idea how to legally play cards in this game. I thought I had it down: one boon of a particular type per check, unless something says 'freely' or some nasty scourge/location/monster/wildcard restricts things more. There are other rules regarding when you can play things?
There are other rules regarding when you can play things?
Looking over the Core rules again, I'm realizing that timing issues could be quite fuzzy for new players. For instance, p. 7 says, "Anyone can play a card whenever the card allows it." One could interpret that line as saying that a Cure can essentially be played anytime, since it has no restrictions. But that isn't true given this statement on p. 6:
You can play cards and use powers without limit in between these steps, as long as they don’t say they can only be played at certain times. You cannot play cards or use powers between turns.
I was going to try to fully summarize the different times that you can play cards, but then I realized that I couldn't do it properly. See this thread as an example.
Ignoring that thread, though, a decent summmary:
- Generally, cards can only be played *during* a step if the card allows it. Many cards do that, though. E.g., "For your combat check..."
- Generally, cards that don't specify a particular timing can only be played *between* steps. E.g., After taking damage from a combat, you can play a Cure spell between the Encounter and Close Your Location steps.
- Cards can never be played between turns. If you draw a Cure spell or an armor in your "End Your Turn" step, you cannot heal a local character or display the armor until after the next player has started their turn. Which is after they've flipped a blessing and handled any "start of turn" effects, essentially.
(No doubt some of this is incomplete or vague. Sorry.)
P.S. My organized play group violates the official timing rules at least once per game, so it's not just new players that have trouble. I've given up trying to correct them, though. :)
P.P.S.: It's possible that PACG might be simplified and improved by eliminating the "Affecting the Situation" rules entirely (p. 10). I.e., only allow cards to be played during steps when specified, and between steps in all other cases (i.e., if not specified). Unless it breaks the game, of course.
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That thread you referenced is a casual player's nightmare. I'll give the Core Set rules another read-through, but I'm not going back to pre-Core rulesets. I think I've got the basics correct, so I'm not going to stress about minutiae/weird corner cases.
wkover, your summerization works really well for a player that isn't involved in tournament-level games.
I'm just going to memorize what you wrote and go with that.
Thanks a bunch, for the answer and the work on "that other thread".