Lesser Demiplane and up, permanency issues?

[Alextheless]

Say I cast Lesser Demiplane, and pay to make that permanent, if I later cast Demiplane (or Greater) to alter the original, is it still permanent?

[OmniMage]

I'm not sure how it would work.

Logically, you paid for a a lesser demiplane, so balance wise it should never be more than a lesser demiplane. Any changes should be temporary at best. Maybe you could talk to your GM about upgrading a demiplane by paying the difference.

Maybe some changes could be allowed, but it should not be beyond what create demiplane lesser could do. You can make changes to the plane itself using physical labor or spells that would have permanent effects.

[Kayerloth]

To my mind no, only the remaining permanent lesser portions would retain the permanency effect. Then again if they've gained higher levels it shouldn't be difficult to cast permanency as needed for the additional area(s).

[Claxon]

As a GM, if you have a permanent lesser demi-plane I would let you pay the difference to upgrade it to a permanent greater demiplane.

But no, I wouldn't let you permanently change the demi-plane from greater demiplane without paying some sort of cost.

You coudl temporarily overwrite the lesser demi-plane to have functionality of a greater demi-plane, but only for the duration of the greater demi-plane spell.

[Bob Bob Bob]

The spell is pretty clear on this.

Greater Create Demiplane wrote:

You can use this spell to expand a demiplane you created with lesser create demiplane or create demiplane (you do not need to create an entirely new plane using this spell), in which case it has a duration of 1 day/level. Alternatively, when cast within your demiplane, you may add to your demiplane (or remove from it) one of the following features (or any of the features described in create demiplane) with each casting of the spell, in which case it has an instantaneous duration.

If you're expanding the area of the demiplane it has a duration of 1 day/level. It does not care what the duration of the base demiplane is. If you're adding features it has a duration of instantaneous (which means permanent and undispellable).

[Claxon]

I disagree.

The spell specifies the price you must pay to have a permanent grater demi-plane. If you haven't paid that price you don't get to have that permanent effect.

I agree the rules aren't very clear on this, but your way would allow people to pay less (17,500 vs 22500) for the cost of a permanent lesser demiplane while being able to gain the benefits of a greater demiplane by casting it once.

The only benefit otherwise would be that higher level spell produce a larger volume plain, but some people might not care about the size as much as being able to save some many and get effects like "timeless" quality.

I still say no.

[blahpers]

create demiplane wrote:

This spell functions as create lesser demiplane, except the area is larger and you can add more features to the plane. You can use this spell to expand a demiplane you created with create lesser demiplane (you do not need to create an entirely new plane using this spell), in which case it has a duration of 1 day/level. Alternatively, when cast within your demiplane, you may add (or remove) one of the following features to your demiplane with each casting of the spell, in which case it has an instantaneous duration.

So, either

(a) you're expanding a demiplane created with lesser demiplane -> 1 day/level; or
(b) you're editing the features of a demiplane you've already created -> instantaneous.

Note that (b) doesn't care whether you've made that demiplane via create lesser demiplane or create demiplane, only that it is one that you have created. It also doesn't care what the duration of the demiplane being edited is.

So sure, you can get away with only paying the permanency cost of a lesser demiplane at the cost of your demiplane being quite a bit smaller than it otherwise would be.

[Cevah]

Claxon wrote:

I disagree.

The spell specifies the price you must pay to have a permanent grater demi-plane. If you haven't paid that price you don't get to have that permanent effect.

Problem is, that this is not a permanent effect. It is an instantaneous duration for the change of character of the existing spell.

/cevah