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I have a player who, in every single dungeon, wants to transform into a lizard or spider, climb on the ceiling, and scout the entire dungeon ahead from the ceiling where its quite safe.
Its proven pretty broken in the first few games we played. I was looking into pest form, and it seems like he shouldn't be able to do this because it doesn't give a climb speed. But I don't know how to explain to him that lizards and spiders cannot naturally climb walls.
Am I in the wrong - Should I be allowing it?
I tried to limit him via movement, but the 10 minutes you get still allows him to scout out everything completely safely even at only 10 speed. If it doesn't... well, he can cast it 4 times because of the feats and modifiers.
Any advice on this? Do you allow pest form to climb along walls? I presume you wouldn't allow them to fly as a housefly, either - to by pass a 40ft lake, for instance.

Cellion |

Pest Form doesn't give a climb speed, anything else is a houserule. Also, keep in mind that it's turning you into a rather HUGE insect (one that is tiny sized, rather than fine or diminutive) and that its stealth bonus is only +10. Its going to stand out as unusual to any dungeon denizens that beat the stealth check.
As for flying, note that the Pest Form spell has a heightened (4th) entry that allows you to grant to form you're transformed into a fly speed of 20ft. Before then it should not be granting flight.
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Considering these restrictions, being able to scout with Pest Form should still be effective as long as the player is careful. Some creatures in the dungeon might spot a wandering insect or lizard and want to eat it. But other creatures may be willing to ignore a lizard even if the druid fails their stealth check. As a GM, you can use monster motivations to create a tense moment for the druid as the goblins (or whatever) talk about how hungry they are.

Fuzzy-Wuzzy |

Also, keep in mind that it's turning you into a rather HUGE insect (one that is tiny sized, rather than fine or diminutive) and that its stealth bonus is only +10. Its going to stand out as unusual to any dungeon denizens that beat the stealth check.
They dumped the Diminutive and Fine categories for the playtest; anything smaller than Small is Tiny. See table 9-1 on page 313. So I would assume you turn into a cat-sized cat, rat-sized rat, fly-sized fly, etc, rather than a cat-sized rat or fly (ewww).
I have a player who, in every single dungeon, wants to transform into a lizard or spider, climb on the ceiling, and scout the entire dungeon ahead from the ceiling where its quite safe.
One, I'm pretty sure lizards and spiders get eaten in dungeons on a regular basis, so scratch "quite safe." (Even on the ceilings---otherwise all dungeon ceilings would be absolutely packed with lizards and spiders.)
Two, I don't think most lizards can climb on the ceiling; geckos could, but they'll look unusual to the dungeon denizens. Spiders can, but they're more susceptible to being eaten than lizards.
Three, how are they returning with useful information? Does the character have such a high Int that you let them map the entire dungeon out in their head (represented by the player drawing an actual map, of course)? The lizard certainly isn't making an itty-bitty map along the way; it can do few or no actions that require the manipulate trait, as per the spell.

Cellion |

Cellion wrote:Also, keep in mind that it's turning you into a rather HUGE insect (one that is tiny sized, rather than fine or diminutive) and that its stealth bonus is only +10. Its going to stand out as unusual to any dungeon denizens that beat the stealth check.They dumped the Diminutive and Fine categories for the playtest; anything smaller than Small is Tiny. See table 9-1 on page 313. So I would assume you turn into a cat-sized cat, rat-sized rat, fly-sized fly, etc, rather than a cat-sized rat or fly (ewww).
Thanks! Totally missed that despite all the time I spent with the Playtest CRB. Hmm, colossal is gone too.

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Thanks for the forum guys! So specifically, yes, he is choosing a gecko to scale the ceilings (and we are going with a gecko-sized-gecko then?).
Even if he fails a stealth check, or geckos are uncommon... the goblins and skeletons in the cave we had can't do much to him on the ceiling even if he is detected. I'm considering some natural bats maybe as a counter, but he will probably think I'm a jerk if I do it too much.
As far a useful information... he doesn't draw anything. He is damn good at memorizing IRL, and no matter how dumb his character may be, he just... knows
Thanks for the conversation guys!

Fuzzy-Wuzzy |

Even if he fails a stealth check, or geckos are uncommon... the goblins and skeletons in the cave we had can't do much to him on the ceiling even if he is detected. I'm considering some natural bats maybe as a counter, but he will probably think I'm a jerk if I do it too much.
Goblins are smart enough to throw rocks at tasty tasty ceiling lizards (if they manage to spot them). That wouldn't hurt much normally, but pest form does bring with it Weakness 5 to all physical damage.
As far a useful information... he doesn't draw anything. He is damn good at memorizing IRL, and no matter how dumb his character may be, he just... knows
Wow. Okay, that level of player ability deserves a certain amount of ingame profit. :-)