| 16 people marked this as FAQ candidate. Answered in the FAQ. 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
how dragon disciple works with a x-blooded sorcerer?
RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
|
I don't know that a definitive answer has come up. I would expect table variation.
I've discussed it with some others, and I would not allow it at my table, because it's not legal by my understanding of the rules. (You can be a bard and meet the requirements for a Dragon Disciple. The only thing you can't be is (a) a sorcerer with (b) a bloodline other than Draconic. Which is what a cross-blooded sorcerer would be.)
|
(b) a bloodline other than Draconic. Which is what a cross-blooded sorcerer would be.)
The Prestige Class does not restrict you from having additional bloodlines, just requires that if you are a sorcerer you must have the draconic bloodline, by your ruling, a sorcerer could no longer legally take Eldritch Heritage after taking a level in Dragon Disciple, and neither Dragon Disciple or Eldritch Heritage say anything to support this.
|
RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
|
I don't believe Eldritch Heritage gives you an additional bloodline, Dylos, but I could be wrong. I believe it simply gives you a bloodline power, like claws or shooting a ray of heavenly fire.
If a sorcerer had the Fey Bloodline, would you consider her eligible for Dragon Disciple if she took Eldritch Heritage: Draconic feat at 5th level?
|
|
If a sorcerer had the Fey Bloodline, would you consider her eligible for Dragon Disciple if she took Eldritch Heritage: Draconic feat at 5th level?
I suppose not since even if they are counted as having the draconic bloodline it doesn't progress without additional feats.
EDIT: However a crossblooded's draconic bloodline would still progress and the PrC mentions nothing against having multiple bloodlines just that you must have draconic, which the crossblooded would.
RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32
|
Requirements
To qualify to become a dragon disciple, a character must fulfill all the following criteria.
Race: Any non-dragon.
Skills: Knowledge (arcana) 5 ranks.
Languages: Draconic.
Spellcasting: Ability to cast 1st-level arcane spells without preparation. If the character has sorcerer levels, he must have the draconic bloodline. If the character gains levels of sorcerer after taking this class, he must take the draconic bloodline.
A crossblooded sorcerer selects two different bloodlines. The sorcerer may gain access to the skills, feats, and some of the powers of both bloodlines she is descended from, but at the cost of reduced mental clarity and choice (see Drawbacks).
Emphasis mine. It would appear that Cross Blooded grants both bloodlines, and Dragon Disciple is just checking for presence of Draconic... and not, as Chis sees it, the absence of all other bloodlines.
IMO, by RAW, a Cross Blooded Sorcerer with Draconic as one of their bloodlines CAN enter Dragon Disciple.
|
RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
|
Dylos, I understand your position, but I respectfully disagree. A cross-blooded sorcerer gains the options of choosing from two pure bloodlines, but is a different bloodline from either of them.
For example, a cross-blooded (Fey / Draconic) sorcerer might select all of her bonus feats, bonus spells, and bloodline powers from her Fey heritage. She's be, essentially, a Fey-bloodline sorcerer with Perception as a class skill, who gets +1 point of damage per die rolled on certain energy types, who knows fewer spells and takes a -2 penalty to Will saves.
More importantly, if cross-blooded sorcerers were considered members of their individual heritage bloodlines, the rules would say so. Something like: "Orc Blood: Half-orcs count as both humans and orcs for any effect related to race."
I probably would allow a Draconic Seeker, or a Wild-blooded (Linnorm) bloodline sorcerer / Dragon Disciple, barring any ruling from Mike or Mark. Likewise, I would not allow a wish-crafter Draconic bloodline sorcerer / Dragon Disciple, because that archetype replaces too many Draconic elements with genie/wishing elements, unless Mike or Mark rule otherwise..
But some people I respect see things differently. Again, Rogar, expect table variation.
|
how dragon disciple works with a x-blooded sorcerer?
It doesn't. Because you don't have the draconic bloodline, you've got some strange mutant mix. There is no ruling because the PrC is quite specific. If you take the PrC and take a level of sorcerer later, it MUST be the Draconic bloodline. If you are a sorcerer before becoming a DD you MUST be a draconic sorcerer, that's the RAW text of the PrC, no additional ruling needed. Even if you could, the PrC only advances the powers of a draconic bloodline, not some freak blooded mix.
|
|
I don't see how you could take Dragon Disciple if you were a Crossblooded sorcerer.
There doesn't seem to be any issue with it in the RAW.
A crossblooded bloodline combines the powers of two distinct heritages.
Emphasis mine.
You do not have the Draconic Bloodline, you have a crossblooded bloodline.
If the character has sorcerer levels, he must have the draconic bloodline.
The Crossblooded Bloodline is not the Draconic Bloodline. It is a tainted bloodline.
For example, a cross-blooded (Fey / Draconic) sorcerer might select all of her bonus feats, bonus spells, and bloodline powers from her Fey heritage. She's be, essentially, a Fey-bloodline sorcerer with Perception as a class skill, who gets +1 point of damage per die rolled on certain energy types, who knows fewer spells and takes a -2 penalty to Will saves.
More importantly, if cross-blooded sorcerers were considered members of their individual heritage bloodlines, the rules would say so. Something like: "Orc Blood: Half-orcs count as both humans and orcs for any effect related to race."
I probably would allow a Draconic Seeker, or a Wild-blooded (Linnorm) bloodline sorcerer / Dragon Disciple, barring any ruling from Mike or Mark. Likewise, I would not allow a wish-crafter Draconic bloodline sorcerer / Dragon Disciple, because that archetype replaces too many Draconic elements with genie/wishing elements, unless Mike or Mark rule otherwise..
I can kind of see your logic on the matter of crossblooded sorcerers, although I think you are incorrect and I agree with Justin Riddler on this. I'm kind of surprised that so many people would not allow this character, since I thought I was pretty open and shut that you could by RAW.
Your claims about other archetypes is a little more problematic. There is absolutely no basis for you to prevent a Wishcrafter/DD or a Seeker/DD by RAW. They have the draconic bloodline and no other, it does not matter whether you think that they have given up too much "dragonness" or whatever. You have to be an ifreet anyway to be a Wishcrafter, so you are just a combination genie/dragon. I don't see the problem.
The crossblooded, fine, I will concede that there is "table variation" to kick that character even though I would allow it and advise people that it is probably legal. Your other examples of not allowing archetyped DD's is over the line into house-rule territory, however, as I read the rules.
FAQ time though, since I want to hear the RAI for this.
Thats the fluff text at the beginning of the archetype. Lets look at the actual rules text though.I don't see how you could take Dragon Disciple if you were a Crossblooded sorcerer.
There doesn't seem to be any issue with it in the RAW.
A crossblooded bloodline combines the powers of two distinct heritages.
Emphasis mine.
You do not have the Draconic Bloodline, you have a crossblooded bloodline.
A crossblooded sorcerer selects two different bloodlines.
All the archetype does is literally give you two bloodlines. There is no such thing as the "crossblooded" bloodline outside of fluff text. You have two bloodlines, each of which is identical to the bloodline of a regular sorcerer. Thus you can be a DD if one of the bloodlines is draconic.
|
RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32
|
Dylos, I understand your position, but I respectfully disagree. A cross-blooded sorcerer gains the options of choosing from two pure bloodlines, but is a different bloodline from either of them.
Much like what Saint Caleth said above, Cross-Blooded is NOT making a new bloodline
For example, a cross-blooded (Fey / Draconic) sorcerer might select all of her bonus feats, bonus spells, and bloodline powers from her Fey heritage. She's be, essentially, a Fey-bloodline sorcerer with Perception as a class skill, who gets +1 point of damage per die rolled on certain energy types, who knows fewer spells and takes a -2 penalty to Will saves.
No, she would still be of the draconic bloodline by RAW, it would just be that her Fey heritage is stronger than her Draconic heritage... which is still not a reason to prevent them for doing Dragon Disciple by RAW.
More importantly, if cross-blooded sorcerers were considered members of their individual heritage bloodlines, the rules would say so. Something like: "Orc Blood: Half-orcs count as both humans and orcs for any effect related to race."
No, it doesn't need that phrase in the same way Orc Bloodline's Bloodline Arcana doesnt need that same phrase because it is bestowing the "Orc" subtype in addition to your own subtypes... once again I emphasize the "addition" clause because there seems to be some confusion with it and a "replaces" or "excludes" clause.
I probably would allow a Draconic Seeker, or a Wild-blooded (Linnorm) bloodline sorcerer / Dragon Disciple, barring any ruling from Mike or Mark. Likewise, I would not allow a wish-crafter Draconic bloodline sorcerer / Dragon Disciple, because that archetype replaces too many Draconic elements with genie/wishing elements, unless Mike or Mark rule otherwise..
Now we are starting to split hairs about what Archetypes can enter the prestige class and which ones cannot. These are fine reasons as to why they may not be allowed in a home game, but they are not reasons enough for banning a player in PFS from doing them. There is no other requirement in class abilities besides the presence of the Draconic Bloodline, so unless there is a Sorcerer Archetype that removes the entire Bloodline class feature, then there is no reason why any Sorcerer Archetype cannot take Dragon Disciple.
But some people I respect see things differently. Again, Rogar, expect table variation.
Which is an excellent reason why this issue needs an official voice to it - we want to eliminate as much table variance as possible
I really appreciate this cross (hehe) examination of my question. With your suggestion, I hit the FAQ Button.
|
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
"Crossblooded" is an archetype and not a bloodline. I had to refresh my memory from the PRD but some of the language leads me to believe that you count as both:
"A crossblooded sorcerer selects two different bloodlines. The sorcerer may gain access to the skills, feats, and some of the powers of both bloodlines she is descended from, but at the cost of reduced mental clarity and choice (see Drawbacks)."
"A crossblooded sorcerer may select her bonus spells from either of her bloodlines."
"A crossblooded sorcerer gains the bloodline arcana of both her bloodlines."
The 'either of her' and 'both her' bloodlines text indicates to me that the character in question counts as having both bloodlines.
Dragon Disciple has the text:
"If the character has sorcerer levels, he must have the draconic bloodline. If the character gains levels of sorcerer after taking this class, he must take the draconic bloodline."
This is very specific, however, all a sorcerer has to do is take the Draconic bloodline during character creation. Archetypes can come in and modify all they want to, but it still doesn't stop the character from having made the choice to have the Draconic bloodline.
|
this one actually Should stay here ... IMHO since Home games can make whatever ruling they want / need ... and society is a Cut and dry hard coded rule set ... and I Imagine that this would affect a relatively large # of playersAlso flagging thread to move to Rules Questions.
You could say that about most rules questions though.
ooohooh oooh I want a one star praise
Todd, your violent tendacies need an outlet other than my face. Have you tried knitting?
Developer
|
It seems this was kicking around the FAQ queue, so let me just point folks to the FAQ that Mike already posted for this question (just in case anyone spots this thread and wonders if it was ever resolved).
