Beginning a lvl1-20 campaign as a skald-should i consider a bloodrager dip?

[Acognito]

hello all,

as the title says, I'm currently playing a lvl1 melee-oriented wyrm singer skald with the community-minded trait. In the next session or so we are expecting to level up, and I just wanna ask whether it's worth it to delay my skald class progression by 1 level for bloodrage.

Right now I'm looking at the id rager archetype, specifically the anger focus. It nets me power attack and intimidate focus (compliments cornugon smash quite well). With draconic rage, bloodrage, and Atavistic Avatar all active, I get a +2/+2 morale on atk roll/dmg, +4 morale on strength, and +2 untyped str from strength focus.

If I calculated this correctly, then it's a total of +5/+5 on ab and damage. However, my ac also gets a -4 penalty... Is this a good trade(also considering that I'm one level late at getting rage powers for teammates)? If it is, how do I build up my ac with minimal investment to mitigate the loss? (I'm using a greataxe and wearing chainmail)

[Trevor86]

You can use urban bloodrager and id rager archetypes together to get your base rage to +4 str +4 dex +2 will with no downside. If anger, that makes it +6 str +2 dex. This is much, much better than the -2 ac penalty from normal rage for a few hp in compensation. Be advised though that the gm would have to approve of multiple archetypes per class. This will make you very powerful in melee. Whether you want to do this to delay your casting by one level is up to you, but from an optimzation standpoint is probably worth it. Side considerations shoudl probably be given on how other players will react when the bard is suddenly the most powerful melee combatant.

It's not easy to 'easily boost ac' at very low levels when 2 handing considering a very lim ited budget. Your best bet is probably a wand of shield. Aside from just saving for better armor than a base chainmail like a +1 breastplate, of course, and the basic things like ring of protection and amulet of.natural armor. As a side note, Ac gets a lot less meaningful when you get access to mirror image and displacement, which provide much better overall protection than investing much in ac.

[Wonderstell]

Trevor86 wrote:

You can use urban bloodrager and id rager archetypes together to get your base rage to +4 str +4 dex +2 will with no downside.

The Urban Bloodrager's Controlled Bloodrage makes you lose the will save bonus and you only increase one ability score, unless there's a trick to it?

***

Quote:

I just wanna ask whether it's worth it to delay my skald class progression by 1 level for bloodrage.

Nope. Not at all.

Inspired Rage wrote:

At 1st level, affected allies gain a +2 morale bonus to Strength and Constitution and a +1 morale bonus on Will saving throws, but also take a –1 penalty to AC. While under the effects of inspired rage, allies other than the skald cannot use any Charisma-, Dexterity-, or Intelligence-based skills (except Acrobatics, Fly, Intimidate, and Ride) or any ability that requires patience or concentration.

So while a Skald can normally use performances and cast spells, your Bloodrage would not give you this exception. Even if you take the Urban Bloodrager archetype it does not change the restriction that you can't use anything required patience or concentration.

[baggageboy]

I agree with wonderstell. You don't gain nearly enough to make a bloodrager dio worth the cost. Smalls is a class that really doen't like multiclassing. If you're going to do it, you need to have a clear vision as the why it's worth slowing down all of your abilities.

[Trevor86]

Wonderstell wrote:

You can use urban bloodrager and id rager archetypes together to get your base rage to +4 str +4 dex +2 will with no downside.

The Urban Bloodrager's Controlled Bloodrage makes you lose the will save bonus and you only increase one ability score, unless there's a trick to it?

Yeah, the trick is that the actual archetype is savage technologist, and it's a barbarian archetype instead of bloodrager. I blame them constantly getting recommended as alternatives to normal rage dips side-by-side. :')

So, you could still get the best rage but not with bloodrager. If you don't have a second layer of defense at low levels, urban bloodrager is probably still better than normal bloodrager rage, though the latter does increase your non armor defenses to compensate for lowering ac. You can also stack urban bloodrager with anger Id rager for a +6 str -2 dex rage alternative.

If you want to mix melee and casting, you will however need to drop in and out of rage and find a way to rage cycle, regardless of which one you take.

[Firebug]

So the trick is, nothing stacks like you think it does. Specifically, if you are affected by Draconic Rage and you activate Bloodrage, you then have to choose which is affecting you.

Advanced Class Guide FAQs wrote:

Anger Management: If I am in a rage, or an Unchained rage, or a bloodrage, or some similar form of rage, can I stack up as many benefits as possible?

No. When you either activate or are affected by a new form of rage (such as a barbarian’s rage, a skald’s raging song, a bloodrager’s bloodrage, and the rage spell), you can choose whether to keep your current rage or to accept the new rage instead, much like a creature affected by multiple polymorph effects. If you are in the throes of a rage that you could not automatically end on your own, such as a wild rager’s wild rage, you may not choose to replace it with a new rage effect. The exception to this rule is the skald’s master skald ability, which explicitly allows the skald’s raging song to stack with other rage effects.

Now, the appropriate reason to dip into Bloodrager is for this line in Inspired Rage:

Inspired Rage wrote:

... If an ally has her own rage class ability (such as barbarian’s rage, bloodrager’s bloodrage, or skald’s inspired rage), she may use the Strength, Constitution, and Will saving throw bonuses, as well as AC penalties, based on her own ability and level instead of those from the skald ...

What this means, is that you could activate your Draconic Rage, but decide that instead of the +2 morale bonus to Melee Attack/Damage/etc that you would prefer the +4 morale bonus to Strength and Constitution from the general Bloodrager Bloodrage. Perhaps you need the extra HP, or are making a strength check to open a box. However, you do NOT get the additional effects, only trading out the morale bonuses. So no Power Attack while under the effect of Draconic Rage (and no Anger Focus +2 str), only when you activate Bloodrage specifically.

It is important to note that you are just trading out the morale bonuses, so if your Inspired Rage or Bloodrage gave different bonus types those are not adjusted. For example, a Totemic(Bull) will still gain the Enhancement bonuses to Str even if he trades out the Morale bonuses. Since you are just trading out the bonuses, you can still cast Skald spells/use Cha/Int/Dex skills/etc.
Also, I would suggest an archetype that doesn't trade away your bloodline (or specifically your 1st level bloodline power) as you can trade that for a Bloodline Familiar (if you choose an appropriate bloodline). The reason you want to do that, is for the Valet Familiar archetype which allows your familiar to have your Teamwork feats, and then take the Amplified Rage teamwork feat. Basically, when you activate your inspired rage, you choose to gain +4 str/con from bloodrage, and then since your familiar is adjacent to you (likely hiding in a Familiar Satchel) you gain an additional +4 str/con from Amplified Rage (and then Totemic for another +2/4/6)