Aloha all together!
There is coming up an one-shot with level 4 chars and some tough fights will be involved.
So I would like to try an Bloodrager + natural - attack build. I thought Skinwalker (Ragebreed), Extra Features to get hooves(these are Secondary attacks, like all hooves, right?) and Gore, Abyssal Bloodline for claws and enlarge Person(reach with everything). I would dump wis, int, cha(this single lvl1 spell won't do for me) to get some decent physical stats. Also I could get medium armor for some AC(it won't be affected by shape changing, right? Also 6000gp for shopping, so maybe +1), and some wands (infernal healing, shield) to heal and get more AC (can't cast them but they are on my spell list, so wands will work). I don't need a +1weapon so much gold to spend. Also a feat to spend, traits gonna be reactionary and vengeance.
Your thoughts about this concept? :)
Yes, hooves are secondary attacks. Are you sure you want to drop Wis? It affects your Will save, after all. I think you do lose Armor AC if you shape shift, although I'm not sure it applies with the skinwalker effect. I know you keep Armor AC with Enlarge Person. You might want to ask your GM just to make sure.
1. No need to dump all mental stats. You don't need more than, say, 14 DEX at character creation. That means you have a +2 mod. Adding +6 at 20th level with a Belt of Physical Perfection would bring you to a +5 mod, which is exactly the Max DEX modifier of a mithral breastplate, your endgame target.
2. Note that hoof attacks and claw attacks are interchangeable. You don't get MORE attacks just by getting claws + hooves. You still only have TWO limbs to attack with. So claw + hooves doesn't work. Gore + bite MAY work depending on your GM interpreting of the rules, whether "body part" or "limb" is more important.
3. Armor should not get affected by a Skinwalker's Shapeshifting, no.
4. I think a reasonable goal to aim to is: tail, gore, bite, claws. An interesting option to get there is Witchwolf Skinwalker to get bite + claw/claw, go Salamander bloodline for a tail, and finish it up with Spirit Oni Master for a free gore attack, reaching our tail + gore + bite + claw/claw goal by as early as 3rd level.
5. This all being said, there's something nice about the powerful simplicity of the Hag Riven Bloodrager archetype in giving you two massive claw attacks.
6. Another good one is Lizardfolk (naturally have claw/claw, bite) with the Dangerous Tail feat for a tail, and Spirit Oni Master. That frees up your Bloodrager class choices as everything would be gotten through race/feats.
You don't get MORE attacks just by getting claws + hooves. You still only have TWO limbs to attack with. So claw + hooves doesn't work. Gore + bite MAY work depending on your GM interpreting of the rules, whether "body part" or "limb" is more important.
Er, on the grounds of what rule?
You don't get MORE attacks just by getting claws + hooves. You still only have TWO limbs to attack with. So claw + hooves doesn't work. Gore + bite MAY work depending on your GM interpreting of the rules, whether "body part" or "limb" is more important.Er, on the grounds of what rule?
Er, the natural attacks rules?
Natural Attacks: You do not receive additional natural attacks for a high base attack bonus. Instead, you receive additional attack rolls for multiple limb and body parts capable of making the attack (as noted by the race or ability that grants the attacks).
Most creatures possess one or more natural attacks (attacks made without a weapon). These attacks fall into one of two categories, primary and secondary attacks. Primary attacks are made using the creature's full base attack bonus and add the creature's full Strength bonus on damage rolls. Secondary attacks are made using the creature's base attack bonus –5 and add only 1/2 the creature's Strength bonus on damage rolls. [...]
Creatures with natural attacks and attacks made with weapons can use both as part of a full attack action (although often a creature must forgo one natural attack for each weapon clutched in that limb, be it a claw, tentacle, or slam). Such creatures attack with their weapons normally but treat all of their natural attacks as secondary attacks during that attack, regardless of the attack's original type.
Er, the natural attacks rules?
Which part? Nothing you quoted matches what you've said.
Natural Attacks: You do not receive additional natural attacks for a high base attack bonus. Instead, you receive additional attack rolls for multiple limb and body parts capable of making the attack (as noted by the race or ability that grants the attacks).
So, how are claws on your hands and hooves on your feet not "multiple (...) body parts"?
Creatures with natural attacks and attacks made with weapons can use both as part of a full attack action (although often a creature must forgo one natural attack for each weapon clutched in that limb, be it a claw, tentacle, or slam). Such creatures attack with their weapons normally but treat all of their natural attacks as secondary attacks during that attack, regardless of the attack's original type.
This is only for mixing manufactured and natural weapons, thus utterly irrelevant for the topic.
Hooves are not on your feet necessarily. I think below the torso attacks are tails and talons, while the hooves here are in your front/upper limbs.
Otherwise, when a horse deals hoof damage on a charge attack, it would be spinning 360.
Again, these are the perils of sinking into the ugly mess of natural attacks.
True, but horses are quadrupeds by nature. If you're using a bipedal race, there's no reason you can't have claws on your hands and hooves on your feet.
I think this falls into the Common Sense section of the rules, same as the "free hand" fiasco. If you are attacking with both of your feet, how the hell are you standing up.
"But unarmed strikes can be made with feet", yeah but they follow BaB rules.
My point is being overly generous interpreting a rule made for monsters in the CRB is fraught with danger and munchkinnery.
I think this falls into the Common Sense section of the rules, same as the "free hand" fiasco. If you are attacking with both of your feet, how the hell are you standing up.
Yes, but talons are also on the feet, and there are (at least a few) options for player characters to get talons. And it is a well established FAQ that talons go on the feet.
Unless they specifically FAQ the were boar-kin so the hooves are on their hands, I am going to go with the natural assumption that the hooves are on their feet. (note- I would actually not find such a FAQ surprising; besides the image, I can see that as a way to prevent the low level 5 natural attack build that everyone uses them for.)
If you are attacking with both of your feet, how the hell are you standing up.
In sequence? How does a deinonychus use both its talons? Those are undoubtedly on the hind legs.
I think this falls into the Common Sense section of the rules
I'm sorry, but apparently, you life in different parts of the world than I am. Where I live, we don't have any intelligent humanoid creatures with hooves, so I don't know how one would fight with these. What I have seen is people make a double kick in about a second.
My point is being overly generous interpreting a rule made for monsters in the CRB is fraught with danger and munchkinnery.
If you're a GM allowing the stupid skinwalker race*, you shouldn't expect any less.
*) Neither boars nor wereboars have hoof attacks, why the f+$@ do wereboar-human-hybrids have hoof attacks? And who thought that changing the ability score bonus from wisdom to strength when the bestial-form-bonus is to constitution was a good idea, especially when the penalty is to everyone's favoured dump stat? And don't even get me started on the Boar’s Charge+Disemboweling Tusks combo.
I would actually not find such a FAQ surprising; besides the image, I can see that as a way to prevent the low level 5 natural attack build that everyone uses them for.
Not that that's something hard to do since the Wereshifter...
I would actually not find such a FAQ surprising; besides the image, I can see that as a way to prevent the low level 5 natural attack build that everyone uses them for.)
How about a build that has 4 natural attacks at level 2? Bite from Kitsune race, Claws from Feral Warpriest, Tail Slap from Shifter. Heck, if I hadn't cared more about the flavor of the natural attacks I was putting on the character than amount, I could have gotten Gore/Hoof/Hoof instead of Tail Slap.