| Zatoxic |
Hello folks, I am having a little trouble with this. We found a mass grave and I have found a complete skeleton for a Young (as in the template) Storm Giant. I am try to create the stat block for a void zombie version of it and am not sure how to write the attacks.
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Nautilus // Large // HP 203 // HD 23d8 // Move 60 ft - Swim 40ft // Init +3
Str 37 (+13), Dex 16, Con -, Int -, Wis 10, Cha 10 // BAB +17/+12/+7
AC 32, touch 12, flat-footed 29 (+6 armor, +3 Dex, +14 natural, –1 size)
Space 15 ft.; Reach 15 ft. CMB +28; CMD 40
Fort +6, Ref +6, Will +11
DR 5/ Slashing // Undead Traits
2 slams +30(1d8+13), tongue +25(1d8+6 plus Blood Drain)
Quick Strikes (Ex): Whenever a void zombie takes a full-attack action, it can make one additional slam attack at its highest base attack bonus.
Blood Drain (Ex): If a void zombie hits a living creature with its tongue attack, it drains blood, dealing 2 points of Strength damage before the tongue detaches.
Gear None
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I believe that is how I would go about it with the natural attacks right?
Also, a big question! The zombie template specifies that Zombie acquiring a slam attack when they are converted over. Does this give the Storm Giant 3 slams + tongue?
Thanks
Zatoxic
| avr |
No, there's a lot of errors here. First, you don't create a zombie and modify it again to create a voidstick zombie. You create a voidstick zombie which has no slam attacks and no tongue attack. It does have a couple of touch attacks. Second, remember the creature is size large, i.e. 10' reach, -1 attack etc. No idea why you added 4HD to it either.
| Zatoxic |
No, there's a lot of errors here. First, you don't create a zombie and modify it again to create a voidstick zombie. You create a voidstick zombie which has no slam attacks and no tongue attack. It does have a couple of touch attacks. Second, remember the creature is size large, i.e. 10' reach, -1 attack etc. No idea why you added 4HD to it either.
Here is the page I'm using:
https://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/templates/zombie/For the extra HD:
Hit Dice: Drop HD gained from class levels (minimum of 1) and change racial HD to d8s. Zombies gain a number of additional HD as noted on the following table.
Zombie Size Bonus Hit Dice
Tiny or smaller —
Small or Medium +1 HD
Large +2 HD
Huge +4 HD
Gargantuan +6 HD
Colossal +10 HD
I did make a mistake and use the Huge version instead of large. My bad.
For the void zombie:
Void Zombie (CR +1)
Source PRG:B2
A void zombie is created when a humanoid is bitten by an akata and dies as a result of becoming infected with the void death disease.
If you want a standard void zombie already prepared for you, we’ve got one here: void zombie. If you’d like to create other forms though, read the following creation guidelines.
A void zombie is a fast zombie with a secondary “tongue” attack (actually the larval akata’s feeding tendril)
Speed: Increase the base creature’s land speed by 10 feet.
Defensive Abilities: A void zombie does not gain DR 5/slashing.
Attacks: A void zombie gains a secondary tongue attack for 1d6 damage. This follows normal rules for a secondary natural attack.
Special Attacks: A void zombie gains the following special attacks.
Quick Strikes (Ex)
Whenever a void zombie takes a full-attack action, it can make one additional slam attack at its highest base attack bonus.
Blood Drain (Ex)
If a void zombie hits a living creature with its tongue attack, it drains blood, dealing 2 points of Strength damage before the tongue detaches.
Special Qualities: A void zombie does not gain the staggered special quality.
| avr |
Right, the main mistake you're making is assuming that a void zombie (created as it says 'when a humanoid is bitten by an akata and dies as a result of becoming infected with the void death disease') is a voidstick zombie, created by an hour long ritual and an excessive number of voidsticks.
No, that was the mistake I was making, in reverse. Carry on.
| Bloodrealm |
First: How are you creating a zombie from skeletal remains?
Zombies: A zombie can be created only from a mostly intact corpse.
Second: How are you creating a Void Zombie when such a thing only comes into being when an Akata implants its parasitic larvae into a host and the host dies from it?
| Cevah |
First: How are you creating a zombie from skeletal remains?
Animate Dead wrote:Zombies: A zombie can be created only from a mostly intact corpse.
Well, Restore Corpse takes care of that. But only for Medium or smaller. Research a variant that works of larger skeletons.
/cevah
| BENSLAYER |
Bloodrealm wrote:First: How are you creating a zombie from skeletal remains?
Animate Dead wrote:Zombies: A zombie can be created only from a mostly intact corpse.Well, Restore Corpse takes care of that. But only for Medium or smaller. Research a variant that works of larger skeletons.
/cevah
A [3 850gp] Trollskin Tourniquet has no Size limit and can restore a Corpse as if it was only one day old.
Second: How are you creating a Void Zombie when such a thing only comes into being when an Akata implants its parasitic larvae into a host and the host dies from it?
The Voidstick Zombie entry states that you can make one utilizing [2 500gp] Voidstick Wondrous Items, (the Item entry gives details). A Storm Giant has 19 Hit Dice (as per the Base Creature), for which the Young Template does not reduce. Therefore 19 Voidsticks would be required, (47 500gp). Add in the Trollskin Tourniquet and this endeavour can be achieved for a Price of 51 350gp. With Craft Wondrous Item, the relevant Spells and enough time, this can be reduced to the Cost of 35 175gp. Going by typical Wealth by Level this can be achieved at Level 9/10 with "store bought" Items or Crafted Items around Level 8.
| Zatoxic |
Bloodrealm wrote:First: How are you creating a zombie from skeletal remains?
Animate Dead wrote:Zombies: A zombie can be created only from a mostly intact corpse.Well, Restore Corpse takes care of that. But only for Medium or smaller. Research a variant that works of larger skeletons.
/cevah
Specifically your second question due to Trollskin Tourniquet,
I am a Dark Tapestry domain cleric/wizard/theurge and my DM is leaning heavily into the "when you stare at the void, the void stares back". I've been a necromancer the whole time and saw the Void Zombie and was like yoooo DM, can I make these? And she was like hell yea!
| Bloodrealm |
Bloodrealm wrote:Second: How are you creating a Void Zombie when such a thing only comes into being when an Akata implants its parasitic larvae into a host and the host dies from it?The Voidstick Zombie entry states that you can make one utilizing [2 500gp] Voidstick Wondrous Items, (the Item entry gives details). A Storm Giant has 19 Hit Dice (as per the Base Creature), for which the Young Template does not reduce. Therefore 19 Voidsticks would be required, (47 500gp). Add in the Trollskin Tourniquet and this endeavour can be achieved for a Price of 51 350gp. With Craft Wondrous Item, the relevant Spells and enough time, this can be reduced to the Cost of 35 175gp. Going by typical Wealth by Level this can be achieved at Level 9/10 with "store bought" Items or Crafted Items around Level 8.
We've already established this is not a Voidstick Zombie.
| Bloodrealm |
I am a Dark Tapestry domain cleric/wizard/theurge and my DM is leaning heavily into the "when you stare at the void, the void stares back". I've been a necromancer the whole time and saw the Void Zombie and was like yoooo DM, can I make these? And she was like hell yea!
Thematically, this makes sense, but mechanically, it stinks of bad cheese, especially combined with a Giant.
Regardless, the GM cleared it whether it's a bad idea or not, so my questions are answered, I guess.| LordKailas |
Since your DM is allowing you to apply the template the easiest way to resolve it is to just apply similar limitations as when you apply a template like bloody to a skeleton.
As has been pointed out, you'll 1st need to cast a spell like restore corpse to make it eligible to be a zombie. Flesh puppet might work since it technically doesn't require the target corpse to possess flesh. Honestly, the easiest way is to see if your dm would just let you use a higher level version of restore corpse that can target larger creatures or if multiple castings would work.
Assuming that by some method you now have a somewhat fleshy corpse to work with, lets look at what animating it would look like. The young template does not alter it's HD only it's size, natural armor and base stats. So, it's still a 19 HD creature. Because it is large, animating it results in a 21 HD creature. Applying the bloody skeleton rule it would cost to animate as if it were a 42 HD creature. Once animated it would only count as 21 HD for control purposes.
It's stats would be storm giant+young+zombie+void zombie.
I seem to recall a rule stating that you can't create an undead creature using animate dead if the resulting creature would have more then 20 HD. I'm not able to find that rule, but if it is still in effect then it means you can't use animate dead to turn it into a zombie regardless of your caster level. You could use create undead, but it would be more costly and wouldn't automatically grant you control of said undead.
The final stats of such a creature would be as follows (assuming you're not using other spells, feats or abilities to augment it like desecrate):
Nautilus // Large // HP 95(average) // HD 21d8 // Move 60 ft - Swim 40ft // Init +3
Str 37, Dex 16, Con -, Int -, Wis 10, Cha 10
BAB: +15
AC 21, touch 12, flat-footed 18 (+6 armor, +3 Dex, +3 natural, –1 size)
Space 10 ft.; Reach 10 ft. CMB +29; CMD 42
Fort +7, Ref +10, Will +12
// Undead Traits
1 slam +27[+13 str, +15 BAB, -1 size](1d8+13), tongue +22[+13 str, +15 BAB, -1 size, -5 secondary natural weapon](1d6+6 plus Blood Drain)
Quick Strikes (Ex): Whenever a void zombie takes a full-attack action, it can make one additional slam attack at its highest base attack bonus.
Blood Drain (Ex): If a void zombie hits a living creature with its tongue attack, it drains blood, dealing 2 points of Strength damage before the tongue detaches.
Gear: mwk breastplate
It's worth noting, if the giant truly has no gear then it's AC is 6 points lower since it takes into account its breastplate.
| Zatoxic |
...
Everything you written seems right as I read it! Thank you for your help.
The 20 HD limit is a note that is applied specifically to SKELETONS. Zombies aren't limited by that limit.
The Giant had a 2 Slams attacks like some creatures have 2 claws. Zombie specifically has a note saying that creatures retain their natural attacks so does that stick around?
| LordKailas |
LordKailas wrote:...Everything you written seems right as I read it! Thank you for your help.
The 20 HD limit is a note that is applied specifically to SKELETONS. Zombies aren't limited by that limit.
The Giant had a 2 Slams attacks like some creatures have 2 claws. Zombie specifically has a note saying that creatures retain their natural attacks so does that stick around?
you are correct. I overlooked that the base creature already has 2 slam attacks. So it should read
1 slam +27[+13 str, +15 BAB, -1 size](1d8+13) or 2 slams +27[+13 str, +15 BAB, -1 size](1d8+13), tongue +22[+13 str, +15 BAB, -1 size, -5 secondary natural weapon](1d6+6 plus Blood Drain)
admittedly it comes out looking weird because storm giants already get an enhanced slam attack, giving little to no reason to ever use the slam attack gained by the zombie template. But technically it can make the 1 slam attack it gets from zombie or the 2 slam attacks the creature naturally has.