Probably a dumb question but does the Mythic path ability Sudden Attack allow you to also roll a confirmation roll twice, taking the higher result?
Same concept in question with the Legendary Champion ability. If the confirmation roll does not beat the AC, do you immediately roll it again, taking the second result?
For reference:
Sudden Attack (Ex)
As a swift action, you can expend one use of mythic power to make a melee attack at your highest attack bonus. This is in addition to any other attacks you make this round. When making a sudden attack, you roll twice and take the better result, adding your tier to the attack roll. Damage from this attack bypasses all damage reduction.
Legendary Champion (Ex)
At 10th tier, whenever you make an attack roll against a non-mythic foe and miss, you may immediately roll again. You must take the second roll, even if it’s lower. Once per round when you roll a natural 20 on an attack roll, you regain one use of mythic power.
Probably a dumb question but does the Mythic path ability Sudden Attack allow you to also roll a confirmation roll twice, taking the higher result?
Same concept in question with the Legendary Champion ability. If the confirmation roll does not beat the AC, do you immediately roll it again, taking the second result?
For reference:
Sudden Attack (Ex)
As a swift action, you can expend one use of mythic power to make a melee attack at your highest attack bonus. This is in addition to any other attacks you make this round. When making a sudden attack, you roll twice and take the better result, adding your tier to the attack roll. Damage from this attack bypasses all damage reduction.Legendary Champion (Ex)
At 10th tier, whenever you make an attack roll against a non-mythic foe and miss, you may immediately roll again. You must take the second roll, even if it’s lower. Once per round when you roll a natural 20 on an attack roll, you regain one use of mythic power.
It's not a dumb question.
Short answers: No and no.
If they were meant to affect critical confirmations, it would say so. These abilities only affect attack rolls.
It's not a dumb question.Short answers: No and no.
If they were meant to affect critical confirmations, it would say so. These abilities only affect attack rolls.
Thanks for clarifying for me! All I could find in rules text generally said anything that adds a bonus to an attack roll also treats the confirmation roll as an attack roll, but I couldn't find anything regarding changes to the actual die roll. I've been digging for an answer for a while so you've helped a lot, thanks again!
Glad to help :)
Legendary champion would apply to the confirmation roll.
To find out if it’s a critical hit, you immediately make an attempt to “confirm” the critical hit—another attack roll with all the same modifiers as the attack roll you just made. If the confirmation roll also results in a hit against the target’s AC, your original hit is a critical hit.It's an attack roll, legendary champion applies to attack rolls.
Even immediately rolling again if the crit confirmation doesn't beat AC? Or only the extra mythic power from the nat 20?
Legendary champion would apply to the confirmation roll.
To find out if it’s a critical hit, you immediately make an attempt to “confirm” the critical hit—another attack roll with all the same modifiers as the attack roll you just made. If the confirmation roll also results in a hit against the target’s AC, your original hit is a critical hit.It's an attack roll, legendary champion applies to attack rolls.
Just looked that up, you are correct sir. All crit confirms are indeed considered attack rolls.
I've seen a few discussions around critical confirmation rolls, and I don't know that I've seen any kind of consensus.
To find out if it’s a critical hit, you immediately make an attempt to “confirm” the critical hit—another attack roll with all the same modifiers as the attack roll you just made. If the confirmation roll also results in a hit against the target’s AC, your original hit is a critical hit.
I've seen people say that this isn't an attack roll that you can modify with abilities like this.
I've seen people say it's an attack roll so of course you can apply this.
I've seen people say that since it uses the same modifiers as the attack roll you would get a re-roll if the attack roll had one.
All of them make sense to a certain kind of thinking, I really don't know the answer, but it's probably something you should bring up with your GM. If you are the GM then I don't think it matters too much as long as you're consistent and open with your players. If this is for PFS you might need to ask a venture captain or something.
If anyone has a quote or link to an FAQ or something I'd love to see it.
I've seen people say that this isn't an attack roll that you can modify with abilities like this.
See, this right here makes sense to me. Because you already made the attack roll and got a critical, you're merely making a second "attack roll with the same modifiers" to see if you actually do crit or not.
Critical Focus (Combat)
You are trained in the art of causing pain.
Prerequisites: Base attack bonus +9.
Benefit: You receive a +4 circumstance bonus on attack rolls made to confirm critical hits
This right here is enough to cause Legendary Champion to be suspect that it does not affect confirmation rolls, because if it were supposed to, it would say so. There are a myriad of feats/abilities that specifically call out that it applies to confirmation rolls.
I'm inclined to return to my original position that no, Legendary Champion does not apply to critical confirmation rolls.
Critical Focus (Combat)
You are trained in the art of causing pain.
Prerequisites: Base attack bonus +9.
Benefit: You receive a +4 circumstance bonus on attack rolls made to confirm critical hits
This right here is enough to cause Legendary Champion to be suspect that it does not affect confirmation rolls, because if it were supposed to, it would say so. There are a myriad of feats/abilities that specifically call out that it applies to confirmation rolls.
I'm inclined to return to my original position that no, Legendary Champion does not apply to critical confirmation rolls.
I noticed Critical Focus when trying to figure this out too, but I think it specifies that only to say it doesn't apply to the initial attack roll, otherwise wouldn't it just say "You receive a +4 bonus to confirm critical hits"?
Critical Focus (Combat)
You are trained in the art of causing pain.
Prerequisites: Base attack bonus +9.
Benefit: You receive a +4 circumstance bonus on attack rolls made to confirm critical hits
This right here is enough to cause Legendary Champion to be suspect that it does not affect confirmation rolls, because if it were supposed to, it would say so. There are a myriad of feats/abilities that specifically call out that it applies to confirmation rolls.
I'm inclined to return to my original position that no, Legendary Champion does not apply to critical confirmation rolls.
The feat you're quoting says you receive that bonus ONLY on critical confirmation rolls.
Weapon Focus is a feat that gives you a bonus to attack rolls without calling out crits, and you'd be hard pressed to find someone that won't let you add your +1 from WF when rolling to confirm.
(EDIT: I may be wrong but I think there's an FAQ that specifically states that critical confirmation rolls are attack rolls. I think it's in regards to natural 1's/20's always missing/confirming. That said, I don't remember whether it was specific to that or a general "yes they're attack rolls".)
My personal take is that you'd roll it however you rolled the attack roll. If you re-rolled the attack roll (or had an unlimited use re-roll even if you didn't use it) then you'd be allowed a re-roll on the confirmation roll. If you didn't use the ability on the attack roll then you don't get to use it on the criticial confirmation roll. The idea seems to be that it's the same attack (using all the same everything), you're just seeing if it did get through to that sweet spot.
I fully understand that this ISN'T clear though, so my interpretation may well be wrong.
(I should also say that I'm totally unfamiliar with the abilities being discussed in this thread, and with mythic rules in general. My only input is going to be general "critical" rules.)
The bonus from Weapon Focus would always apply to a crit confirm roll because "you immediately make an attempt to “confirm” the critical hit—another attack roll with all the same modifiers as the attack roll you just made."
I guess my point is that I could deep dive the various feats and abilities in this game and probably find at least 10 that specifically call out that they affect critical confirmation rolls.
I'm a big fan of "it says what it does and it does what it says", so if it doesn't say X in the feat/ability/spell description (and hasn't been a FAQ/Errata), then X doesn't happen.
Well a re-roll probably isn't considered a modifier, so the way I was saying I'd do it is probably wrong. It seems in the right spirit though.
That said, a criticial-confirmation roll is an attack roll, so you should be able to apply any modifiers/abilities that effect attack rolls to it.
Eg. The MISFORTUNE hex would make you roll twice on any attack roll and take the worst result. This should affect a critical-confirmation roll.
"Legendary Champion" specifically refers to attack rolls, so I don't see why it wouldn't work with critical-confirmation rolls.