Hello! First off, let me just say that I am a huge Devil May Cry fan. I have owned every single game up to this point and have always found the idea of slaying demons in style within a modern setting to be a pretty amazing concept. It goes without saying that I have been looking forward to Devil May Cry 5 and that every day brings me that much closer to the ecstatic, demonslaying carnage I do so love.
I got around to thinking not too long ago about how popular the demonslaying genre is in general. Just look at some of the most popular things within the video game and tabletop RPG community: Diablo, Devil May Cry, Wrath of the Righteous, Shin Megami Tensei, and Doom. That led to this thought: since Wrath of the Righteous was so popular upon release and has stayed a player and GM favorite alike, would a Devil May Cry-inspired game be something that people were interested in? I don't mean something set in the specific universe of Devil May Cry, I mean something that borrows from the tropes and spirit of the setting: the modern setting, the demonslaying, human(ish) protagonists, high octane combat, cool plot twists, a modern punk/baroque/gothic blend of aesthetics, and over-the-top story elements.
I have only started piecing together something resembling a concept for the game, but I have big plans for going forward if people are interested. I'll list most of the non-spoiler content below so people can get an idea on the campaign and see if it would interest them. This is just me spit-balling ideas at this point, so keep that in mind.
- The setting is a modern world with select areas that adhere to the ancient ways. Just look at the Devil May Cry games to get an idea of what I am talking about. The ancient island castle from Devil May Cry 1 that had some modern additions to it, the ancient village and modern city in Devil May Cry 2, the modern city that had a freaking demon tower arise in the middle of it in Devil May Cry 3, the town of redeemed demon-worshipping cultists in Devil May Cry 4, and the obvious real world mirror city of DMC: Devil May Cry. One adventure in the campaign might have PCs hunting down demons in a major modern city or venturing out into antiquated villages and towns that seem lost in time to hunt for mystic relics to aid them in their crusade against the forces of darkness.
- Alignment and fiend/celestial types would be homogenized. There would only be Good and Evil. You're either on the right side or not, regardless of your exact attitude. All celestial beings would be collectively known as 'angels' (scholarly types in-setting call them the Malakhim), while all fiendish beings would be known as 'demons'. There is still a mechanical family separation in demon types (Demon, devil, kyton, et cetera), but they are considered the same type of creature in the lore. Aasimar and tieflings are not considered either and are viewed by most outsiders as humans, although some humans that know of their heritage may consider them blessed or tainted, depending on their patron and personal views.
- I was thinking that there would be three races: Human, Aasimar, and Tiefling. All three races would be buffed to around 25 or 30 RP, with humans having more versatility and the planetouched having more power.
- True to the Devil May Cry games, powerful demons can be turned into weapons. The in-setting explanation for this is that sin has a real substance and weight to it (just like the real old world belief that a soul laden with evil is "heavy air" and sinks to Hell) and that the oldest and most powerful demons are so filled with it that their souls are semi-tangible things. There are certain NPCs in the game that can mold these souls into weapons that take after the demon's nature. A demon of ice and the moon might form a scythe with a blade of frozen moonlight that lets you create a moonlit mist that you dimension door through during a charge, while a demon of fire and rage might create twin revolvers that fire bullets of slag and hellfire that get more powerful, and eventually explosive, the more foes damage you.
- There is a faith in the setting known as the Empyrean Choir comprised of powerful angels (called Empyreans) that some mortals worship. It is disregarded in the modern, secular places in the campaign world, but embraced in more isolated or antiquated locales. This faith contains twenty-seven angelic 'patrons' that are believed to function as servants for the creator being and each functions like a Pathfinder deity does. In practice, the faith is modeled after the ancient Catholic Church but with several twists that make it not feel like a straight expy. If you are familiar with Devil May Cry 4, it's similar in many ways to the Order of the Sword, but it doesn't worship an arisen demon.
- Divine magic does not come directly from gods and prayer, but through ritual magic and strict adherence to certain lifestyles that enable one to harness the purity, or corruption, needed to access divine magic. Prayerbooks are replaced with sacred tomes or scrolls that are effectively a wizard's spell book for divine magic. The time that divine spellcasters use each day to regain their spells is spent pouring over the texts and performing whatever rituals are needed to sharpen their connection to their source of power.
- The supernatural is considered to be a myth in most of the campaign world. Angels have never been particularly intrusive in mortal affairs and few demons have been seen since the Great Seal was erected to seal away the demon world. Mages and priests alike, what few remained after the forming of the Great Seal, retreated from the spotlight and formed secretive cabals and sects, fearful of their ways being learned by those who might seek their power to break the seal. As time passed and generations passed with most having never seen a hint of the supernatural, people began to view those things as tools used by the people of older times to explain things that they did not understand and as metaphors used in an attempt to answer the deeper questions of life.
- There is a secret society known as 'The Order' that secretly defends mankind from the threat of demons and their minions. The Order is comprised of normal humans who have had a brush with the supernatural, those with the blood of angels or demons in their veins, practitioners of magic, and others who know about the true nature of the world and wish to safeguard those within it from supernatural threats. The Order, despite being founded by the Empyrean Choir and using it's trappings, is a more or less secular organization and will take anyone who wishes to fight the demons. There is even a branch specifically for former practitioners of demonic magic known as the Veiled Sect that, while kept under close observation, fights the demons with their own tactics and magic.
- Characters will receive an untyped AC bonus as they level based on their primary class to represent their ability to avoid attacks by dodging, parrying, and baiting their enemies. Consequently, armor in this game, apart from shields, will give DR instead of AC. The exact type of armor DR is based on the kind of armor players would wear. So you really don't have to wear clunky armor to be competitive as a melee character, but you can still choose to wear it for DR.
- Automatic Bonus Progression is the order of the day. Whether you're a peak human or someone with outsider blood, I like the idea of PCs who are not as dependent on a ton of gear.
This post fills my dark soul with Light!
I'm interested! And would probably pull some inspiration from Demonbane, which has a similar sort of vibe (up to, and including, turning otherworldly monsters into power). XD I can also give some suggestions on 3PP content to consider.
Oh this could be interesting.
I like the ideas. Color me interested.
Seems cool. As Seranov said, I don't have much experience with Devil May Cry but I do love modern/urban fantasy.
I played the first couple of Devil May Cry games (although more for there connection to Resident Evil, oddly), and I like Urban Fantasy, so...
Dotting in. Sounds like a very interesting game
@Gramork: That cutscene brings back memories from the olden days of gaming. A memeworthy classic if I do say so myself.
@Rednal: Are you referring to the manga/anime/PS2 game Demonbane? If so, then your reach goes back quite a ways and I offer you kudos for that great, if obscure, trip down memory lane.
What third party support would you suggest and for what purpose are they being suggested?
@Seranov and Simeon: If I decide to run this game, it's going to only use tropes from Devil May Cry, so you two never having played shouldn't really be a problem.
@JonGarrett: A Resident Evil fan as well? Have you played the new Resident Evil 2 Remake? I thought it was great and the amount of Mr.X memes has been quite fun to browse through.
@Everyone else: Thanks for the interest! Does anyone have any suggestions or things they want to see in this type of game if I choose to run it? Now, I don't think we can quite top the new motorcycle that turns into chainsaw swords that Dante seems to get in the new Devil May Cry 5, but we can still get some cool stuff.
I've been looking through my library to find things for the campaign and I forgot just how many fiend supplements I have. I plan on digging into the old Green Ronin 'Book of Fiends' and revising some of that content for use within the game. Razorwire Golems, Soulsniffers, and various archfiends are all too cool to pass up as potential adversaries for players to face.
Book of the Damned 3 actually have rules to turn into a demon. Perhaps switch some of the things to allow one to turn into a devil?
Cause I would go down that lane. Even take the damnation feats. I would like to try and recreate an evil character i had in a Evil campaign that died
Yes, I'm referencing that Demonbane. XD
On general principles Spheres of Power/Might offers a lot of potential for flavor, including things like casting traditions that make more sense in a modern setting. They also offer more interesting martial combat, generally toning down full attacks in favor of a mobile combat style. (Both systems are very easy to learn and mechanically sound. XD I'm running and playing in games that use them.)
Pact Magic is good if you want players (or, heck, NPCs) to have the opportunity to make bargains with spirits for power. It's basically the Medium class, but better. XD
Ethermagic is a solid alternative to Kineticist - it allows you to do things like toss around energy blasts of varying elements, but it's powered by a refilling energy pool that sharply caps how much strong stuff you can do in a set period. Very tight math - hard to go outside the lanes there - so no major balance concerns.
(All of this content is found on this wiki, on the main page, Pact Magic page, and Strange Magic page, respectively.)
As a secondary request, let's not start at Level 1. XD It's hard to really be cool and stylish, especially in PbP, if it takes weeks or even months to get your build going.
Good to hear. I agree with Rednal, starting at a higher level can be great for a PbP game. Something like level six can be great, as you can take your first level in a prestige class or have decent multiclassing going.
@Rednal: I allow almost everything on the Spheres wiki on principal. I'm not sure if I would go with outright replacing existing options, but players would be able to choose from the things you mention if they want.
@Rednal and Simeon: Agreed. I have no interest in running low level games anymore. I even boost my APs to around fifth level and adjust them to fit the new level meta. I certainly wouldn't do a mad concept like this a disservice by making it first level.
@JonGarrett: A Resident Evil fan as well? Have you played the new Resident Evil 2 Remake? I thought it was great and the amount of Mr.X memes has been quite fun to browse through.
I work nights (it's almost 6AM here in the UK) so when the Remake launched, I had it pre-ordered and downloaded. I literally beat the game within hours of it launching.
...I should perhaps mention that I was, for a very long time, a Resident Evil superfan. And RE2 (and it's unfinished version, 1.5) were my favourites.
But, yeah, pretty much everything Rednal and Simeon said. Maybe the option for templates instead of gestalt? But that does add a lot of work. Some Templates are plain whacky.
Haven't played the new one only seen memes, now here's hoping they remake 3 and code Veronica (again).
Rednal is on point, high-level play is needed for this game. I'd look into the time of horror 3pp books, plenty of interesting monsters in there.
Oh, man, this sounds so awesome I don't really care I have completely zero knowledge of the DMC series.
Dotting in to see how this turns out.
@JonGarrett: I am a big Resident Evil fan as well. I like most games by Capcom, truth be told. Asura's Wrath, Dragon's Dogma, Dead Rising, Darkstalkers, Mega Man... you name it and I probably enjoy it.
Impressive work on the remake. I, sad to say, forgot a few things from the old game and spent an hour or so wandering to find puzzle piece that I missed, so I spent a good bit more time than I should have. Well, that and dodging Mr.X while trying to get that library puzzle solved.
Templates might be an option, but they would have to be very relevant to the setting's feel for me to allow them.
@Teiidae: Those would be some excellent games to remake, wouldn't they?
High level, or at least something 7th level or above, is almost always a given with me. I find it hard to get motivated for low level games these days.
What are those "Time of Horror" books you speak of? I couldn't find any by searching online. I have a huge library of books I have bought over the years and have never heard of those. If you mean Tome of Horrors, I have all of those from 3.5 and Pathfinder.
@Jereru: Knowledge of DMC isn't necessary, but those who have played will definitely understand the vibe that I am going for.
@Slyness: Feel free to lurk and, if you have any suggestions for things you might want to see in the game, don't hesitate to ask for them. This is still very much in the drawing board phase and not much is really set, including the game itself, although that seems more likely the more I post.
@GM
Thoughts on my suggestion?
@BloodPaw: Quite sorry about missing your question. I don't recall what you are referring to. I remember the Demoniac prestige class had a demonic transformation in book 2, but don't remember a full fiend transformation elsewhere in book 3. I think there was something of the sort in the Book of the Damned final collection, but it required several rituals and actually turned someone into one of the bestiary demons permanently. While that might be cool, there is the problem of blending in when necessary and the question of whether the Order would allow a full-on demon to join. Both the revised Aasimar and Tiefling races have the Pass for Human trait.
I was referring to that, but what i mean was if you wish to adapts it for different celestial things. Angels, Daemons, Devils etc?
Gotta say I'm super interested. Haven't played a ton of Devil May Cry, but it's definitely a blast and I've enjoyed similar games as well. Also a big RE fan, and I agree that the remake of 2 is incredible--probably a defining gold standard for remakes/remasters in the future.
As far as suggestions, I don't know that I bring anything new to the table; Spheres, higher level, and generally keeping things feeling powerful and fun would be my go-tos. If I can offer one suggestion, it would be to try not to get too wild. I'm not disparaging anything or anyone, but I've seen more and more "high-powered" games cropping up lately that have these huge point-buy pools, tons of bonuses to characters, allow anything and everything... and while it seems fun at the outset, it leads to ridiculously broken and over-the-top characters that would be very difficult to actually play with, in my experience and opinion. Gestalt is great, (some) templates can be very fun, but there is such a thing as too much.
Mm. I have a few loose concepts, but without build rules, I won't be solidifying anything. XD
Is it possible to play in a party with good and evil guys, or are we supposed to choose a side? I see people here wanting to play things that seem a bit opposed, but my knowledge is insufficient.
I’m always a fan of playing against type - the good devil, or the “ends justify the means” angel with no compassion or mercy. Is that a thing in DMC?
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I would also like to ask about "semi-gestalt". I don't really understand what this entails, or how it's different from normal gestalt classes. My head is already buzzing with ideas, but how this specific rule functions will likely lead me towards one option or another.
Also, Jereru raises a good point. If this is a Black or White type of Good vs Evil deal, I doubt they deal with each other well outside of combat, and the Neutral option likely either doesn't exist or is hugely maligned by both (eg: as cowards, bandwagoners, etc.). I generally play Good characters because it's easier to roleplay a dude who wants to be and do good things for me, but it's also fun to go outside my wheelhouse and play a bad guy who has solid reasons for the bad things he does.
@JonGarrett: I am a big Resident Evil fan as well. I like most games by Capcom, truth be told. Asura's Wrath, Dragon's Dogma, Dead Rising, Darkstalkers, Mega Man... you name it and I probably enjoy it.
Impressive work on the remake. I, sad to say, forgot a few things from the old game and spent an hour or so wandering to find puzzle piece that I missed, so I spent a good bit more time than I should have. Well, that and dodging Mr.X while trying to get that library puzzle solved.
Templates might be an option, but they would have to be very relevant to the setting's feel for me to allow them.
I have something of a love-hate relationship with Capcom. They made Resident Evil! Then they made Resident Evil 6...
But yeah, the RE2make is very good. I don't think it's as good as the first Remake, purely because for everything that was added (expanded RPD, Marvin getting more of a role) they took something else out (reduced Labs, Ben getting even less screen time) but it's one of the better horror games for a while, and it's nice to see RE games that are meant to be scary.
Templates can be fun, but whacky. I'll probably stick with the semi-gestalt myself.
Pff, you say you love Capcom games but leave out Onimusha.
@Bloodpaw: True. If people want to just outright play good demons, then I will probably allow people to build one with Rite Publishing's 'In the Company of Fiends' material. That was one angle I didn't fully consider.
@Helix Missionary: Agreed with the Resident Evil 2 Remake.
I have ran enough high-powered games to know their pitfalls and what to avoid allowing. There are the more obvious things like Leadership and Sacred Geometry, which should be banned in almost every game. Then there are less obvious things which require more strategic workarounds. A GM has to always be wise enough to recognize broken interactions, brave enough to say "not at my table", and flexible enough to find ways to provide challenge against everything that exists right below broken.
@Jereru: I'm all for antihero types who are a darker shade of good, but outright evil types are going to be prohibited. If PCs want to fight fire with fire and use demonic magic against demons, that's all well and good. If they want to be callous hunters who show no mercy to demons, that's also good. But when PCs may as well be demons themselves in personality and goals, such as being willing to sacrifice innocents or wanting to kill demons and absorb their power in order to rise up as a demon lord and rule Hell, that's where I draw the line with this campaign. In the video games, Vergil is an example of where the line is drawn. Sure, he's all for killing demons, but only because he wants power. He doesn't care about innocents, his brother, or the world as a whole, just becoming stronger. *SPOILERS FOR DMC: DEVIL MAY CRY* Only in pre-DLC DMC: Devil May Cry does he have a halfway reasonable endgoal in that he wants to bring order to the world and plans to do so by crowning himself king of all creation. The game makes it pretty clear that he is the villain. A sympathetic one perhaps, but a villain nonetheless. I want players to be heroes in this game, whether anti or otherwise, not just allies of convenience who are really no better than the foes they fight.
@River of Sticks: I may allow a Sparda-type 'good demon' character, but it would have to be built with Rite Publishing's 'In the Company of Fiends'. I'm not sure if that's on the SRD yet. As for evil angels, probably not for the reasons listed in my reply to Jereru. Morally complex characters are fine, but something edging into evil territory on a consistent basis are not. In Devil May Cry, protagonists are always good despite whatever flaws and foibles they have. Dante, for instance, is a cocky womanizer with an ego the size of Texas, but he is still good at heart and it shows. Devil May Cry 3's Lady is vengeful, has a hairtrigger temper, and consistently pushes people away, but you see that she has a good heart as the story moves along. Plus in the setting I am creating, angels that fall become corrupted versions of themselves known as the Light-shorn that have an essence pretty similar to demons and usually join up with them in positions of power in Hell, assuming they don't become the "purge the world to remove the evil of mortal choice" types. A former Light-shorn that is seeking redemption may be a possibility, but it would need to be very well-written for me to consider it, moreso than a good demon in fact.
@Seranov: Semi-gestalt is just a term I use for my version of gestalt. You add together skill point pools (no Background Skills though) instead of picking the better option. You can't have perfect stats (Full BAB, all good saves, and d10/12 HD), meaning at least one has to be something below the best range. Power Point pools are not merged if you are psionic. That's really about it.
I put some lengthy points up about alignment and character types that might be problematic above.
@JonGarrett: Resident Evil 6 is one of those Final Fantasy 10/10-2 type deals for me. Resident Evil 6 is a good game, it's just a poor Resident Evil game, just like the Final Fantasy 10 games are good games, just mediocre Final Fantasy games. It's all about how the unique components of the series is presented in the games and how much flavor is preserved.
@Teiidae: That one is on my list to play since it has been rereleased on PS4. That was one of the few Capcom games that I never managed to play, along with whatever game Hagar is from.
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Oh, okay, that's pretty close to regular gestalt, but still probably less ridiculous. I do like the idea of combining skill points from both classes, I've run into problems on many characters that, unless they were heavily Int-focused, they just couldn't have a decent number of skill points.
I am 100% okay with my character being very objectively Good (or at least trying to be!), but I have to say that I do love the Fiend-blooded character who tries to be the Goodest Boy. My character will likely be straining against the belief that his blood is cursed pretty hard, even if it is a cliche. :)
Any idea when the recruitment will be up? I'm itching to start building my character.
@JonGarrett: Resident Evil 6 is one of those Final Fantasy 10/10-2 type deals for me. Resident Evil 6 is a good game, it's just a poor Resident Evil game, just like the Final Fantasy 10 games are good games, just mediocre Final Fantasy games. It's all about how the unique components of the series is presented in the games and how much flavor is preserved.
Yeah, I'm not a huge fan of the 'action survival' period they had when Capcom kept whimpering sadly and staring at Call of Modern Battlefield's profit. Some of them were decent action games...but action wasn't really what I wanted in an RE game.
I think this is actually the kinda game where I'd play a human, mostly because I like playing the 'underdog' and having a simple human able to survive in the same world as fallen angels and rising demons automatically moves them into 'badass enough to wear a nice hat and longcoat' territory.
You don't need a hat, but you definitely need a longcoat. XD Though, speaking for myself, I was pondering something based on Al Azif...
Any Shadow Hearts fans here? I'm thinking of some kind of ridiculous harmonixer knock-off
You don't need a hat, but you definitely need a longcoat. XD Though, speaking for myself, I was pondering something based on Al Azif...
Depends on if the cover artist wins the battle or not. Who knows how long that fight will last?
Although riding a zombie dinosaur does have a certain appeal...
@Seranov: That was the intention behind the Semi-Gestalt: make it fulfill more of the it's intended purpose of increasing versatility and remove some of it's ability to create characters without a weakness.
I think everyone likes playing cliche characters from time to time. I will admit to having a soft spot for redeemed characters as well.
@Simeon: I'm still in the planning phase, so probably a while. I created a test thread last night to try and get a handle on how it works here on Paizo and I'm planning on tinkering with how I can format information in the campaign section before I post a recruitment. I also have another project that I am working on that I want to finish first.
@JonGarrett: Those usually are fun characters to play as. I know I liked playing as Lady in Devil May Cry 4 Special Edition. It just felt considerably more epic to know that I beat enemies as a human being than as a half-devil powerhouse.
@Rednal: So the loli embodiment of a book of forbidden knowledge? :P
@Master Han Del of the Web: It's funny you should say that about Harmonixers on Shadow Hearts, given a campaign I have had on the backburner a while now that I have been planning on posting that lets players turn into monsters. Yes monsters, plural.
Well, every Dresden needs their Bob... XD But I haven't really finalized my ideas yet. Might get started shortly, though, see what I can come up with as a proper concrete idea. Might need to get a bit creative if there are angels and demons, but no squid...
@Rednal: Don't you mean that every Garcia Hotspur needs their Johnson? That was a Shadows of the Damned reference, yes!
...given the levels of perversion present I wonder if those two are related?
Who knows? Anyway, I put together an Ethermancer/Incanter (with 20 point buy, level 7, using the semi-gestalt considerations above - far from perfect abilities). Has the ethermancy for good offense, plus Divination, Life, Protection, Time, and Warp powers. And the ability to transform into a flying book. XD Pretty happy with what I've got so far, though I'll probably end up tweaking details once the final build rules are made.
I've been reading along more or less since this popped up, I figure I may as well throw in a dot- while I haven't played DMC, I'm more or less familiar with the concept, and it seems cool enough to base a character off of.
Oh cool! Shadow Hearts is one of the greatest unsung gems of the PS2-era and DMC seems like a decent thematic fit for a character inspired by the games. I was mostly planning on representing it by using Spheres of Power to come up with several basic forms that could be 'fused' into.
The first post is that cutscene. I'm both sad I couldn't post it and glad it's first.
Color me interested.
Aaaaand now I've got a second character idea in mind. XD
@GM: Any plans to move forward with this idea?
Count me incredibly interested if this is still gonna be a thing. Devil May Cry has been a favorite of mine for a long time.
@All: I have decided to go through with this campaign. It is going to be a few weeks, no more than four or five at most, before I can get it up because of another project that I have been working on since shortly after I joined. That particular game is nearing the recruitment phase.
@JonGarrett: One does wonder, no?
@Rednal: That seems like the kind of atypical character I would build. I approve! What is your other character idea, if I may ask?
The second kind of character is a Conscript/Incanter (though I think I'll have to drop one of the saves so as to avoid perfect stats) who specializes in Time Strikes from the Time sphere - single attack actions for reasonable damage while also messing with the target's timestream in ways they don't like. Kind of low on AC (however that ends up actually working), but makes up for it with a Guardian's delayed damage pool and self-healing, so they're pretty good as a tank. The general idea is a character who focuses on cutting time, with most of their powers chosen accordingly - cut open time (which is also space, yay physics) for extradimensional storage and warping, turn back time to heal themselves, et cetera.