Happy Sunday y’all
I’m mulling over some different adventure ideas and I’m wondering how you would respond if your GM did this.
The adventure starts off fairly typical; goblins or bandits or something are riled up and attacking the town or roads. You and your fellow PCs storm off to defeat them. Everything is going according to plan, though there are hints that something is controlling or egging them on. You get past the leader and encounter a high level spellcaster/demon/dragon/undead that casts mass suggestion and tells you all to flee and tell of his coming glory or demand tribute. The DC is high enough that a few PCs will likely fail, even if some pass. The duration may or may not actually take you back to a town, but it will get you out of the dungeon.
Now, you know that there is something big going on, but you have a clear example of how much stronger than you it is.
I would be bored out of my mind and upset I wouldn't be able to actually contribute to a fight that has such a powerful spellcaster that most likely needs a full party to handle.
That is just me though, so results may vary.
I'd likely appreciate the fact that the powerful end guy stuck true to form by using his enchantments first and allowing the PCs to live rather than obliterating them straight away. The suggestion will wear off shortly, now the party will know what to expect when they go back.
A simple protection from evil will likely be all that's needed. I know some people get so hooked on their PCs being super awesome and never failing that they probably won't appreciate the fact that they've been given a fair foreshadowing, though, so it might also depend how stylishly it's done.
I like it as a plot thing. An encounter with the principal villain which doesn't end in a fight to the death is a good story element that you see in a lot of fiction. It allows the players to know the villain a bit as a person, rather than as a problem they've heard of. Also "losing" an encounter gives them something to work toward, and contributes to a theme of personal power growth, which is a theme built into the mechanics.
It seems like there are a couple of potential practical problems, though:
1) what happens if the entire party pass their saves? Or if some fail but then someone casts "suppress charms and compulsions" or similar?
2) what happens if half the party pass, and decide to try and fight even though the other half have run off?
Basically, you have to have a backup plan in case the PCs decide to fight, whether they be at full strength or not.
Thank you for the responses. You hit a lot of my thoughts and I just wanted to see what others thought.
Dragonborn3 wrote: I would be bored out of my mind and upset I wouldn't be able to actually contribute to a fight that has such a powerful spellcaster that most likely needs a full party to handle.
That is just me though, so results may vary.
This is the feeling that I'm afraid of. My goal is to make it occur quickly enough in the encounter with the BBEG and lead right back outside, so hopefully there isn't too much time that PCs can't act. The goal is introducing the BBEG without causing it be a fight or just narrative description. Do you think there is any way to introduce a BBEG in a powerful fashion well?
Pizza Lord wrote: I'd likely appreciate the fact that the powerful end guy stuck true to form by using his enchantments first and allowing the PCs to live rather than obliterating them straight away. The suggestion will wear off shortly, now the party will know what to expect when they go back.
A simple protection from evil will likely be all that's needed. I know some people get so hooked on their PCs being super awesome and never failing that they probably won't appreciate the fact that they've been given a fair foreshadowing, though, so it might also depend how stylishly it's done.
Thank you for the response. I'll hit it again below, but hopefully not everybody has protection, though I can work around it if I need to. I'm hoping it sets up a threat that they will feel passionate about returning to crush.
Lucy_Valentine wrote: I like it as a plot thing. An encounter with the principal villain which doesn't end in a fight to the death is a good story element that you see in a lot of fiction. It allows the players to know the villain a bit as a person, rather than as a problem they've heard of. Also "losing" an encounter gives them something to work toward, and contributes to a theme of personal power growth, which is a theme built into the mechanics.
It seems like there are a couple of potential practical problems, though:
1) what happens if the entire party pass their saves? Or if some fail but then someone casts "suppress charms and compulsions" or similar?
2) what happens if half the party pass, and decide to try and fight even though the other half have run off?
Basically, you have to have a backup plan in case the PCs decide to fight, whether they be at full strength or not.
Thank you for the response. As you said, hopefully it will create a memorable villain that the PCs want to defeat. I've seen a number of adventures that tell the PCs how powerful the BBEG is, but nothing is as strong as the one that got away.
As far as plan B. Some of it will depend on the specific PCs. If possible, I may work in a dispel, or a Worf Effect to drive home how powerful the creature is. I'll hopefully have figured out the PCs well enough by this encounter that I will have an idea if they will stay if only a few pass the check. I may respond with a mocking laugh, "I like you mortal," and a strange gift, especially if its only one PC.
I can see the party being over confidant about a quick rematch, using Protection from Evil or similar spells to ward off charm, and totally expecting the BBEG being all focused on that. So they charge in and the BBEG hit's them with an AoE dispel followed by symbol or other mass spell that stops the party cold, then gloats "Well, since you didn't do as I asked/commanded, perhaps the next hapless heroes will do so..." then proceeds to A) kill of party members at leisure one at a time, or B) teleport each member randomly some where distant.
I've had a friend run a game where a wyvern flying over was just for background, most of party knew they were low for an encounter and stealthier to get clear, but the ranger just off and shoots it with out warning, getting it's attention and forcing the rest of party into a fight they wanted to avoid...
Some times it just take one PC to get the whole party killed...
I did a similar thing, were the party (APL 2) encountered Lilith, who was controlling the golbins whom were raiding the city. Instead of simply killing the party, Lilith said to the leading bugbear "Do your job and kill this scum" and teleported away afterwards. So now the party knows there are villains out there who are far out of their reach (so they don't charge in fun shits 'n giggles), they know some big things are at play, and it makes them think about what does things are, meaning they have a goal to work towards to, instead of just "randomly" encountering baddies.
So I'd say, do your thing, but have a back-up plan ready (e.g. toy with them if they make their save and decide to attack anyway), have them taken prisoner and when the BBEG leaves, they can make an escape plan etc.
Another option is the use of Simulacrums of the BBEG. Each sim is a lesser version of the BBEG, and can be killed. The party rejoices. Then next week, they encounter another sim and wonder: did we actually kill it?
Eventually, the party realizes what is going on.
Could also use Clones to preserve the BBEG.
/cevah
Seems fine, so long as you are aware of the ramifications.
Remember that as the GM, you're (hopefully) setting up situations, not plots. You can set up a situation in which the PCs are likely to encounter a powerful villain and end up with one or more of them enchanted and told to bugger off and proselytize for said villain, but it might not turn out that way, so be ready to adapt if things don't go the way you planned.
If you hit a party with a DC 24 when they are under 5th level all but one person should have to roll a natural 20 to save. Just saying "DC 24 will save" should make most players realize this isn't something they should fight.
My personal choice would be to have the BBG be a 'secret boss'. He's present but invisible at the start of the battle. The boss they fight is constantly looking behind him during the fight and if he gets reduced to less than 10hp he even yells "Master! I'm still useful. I'm not weak! Don't abandon me!" before he continues to fight to the death.
Immediately after the battle the BBG applauds and says "Well, you are stronger than you look. Results should be rewarded appropriately. I won't kill you, but in return you should deliver this note to...someone appropriate. Deal?"
When the party acts hostile, then hit them with Mass Suggestion at the BBG's full DC which if it was an AP would be in the 24 range. Maybe bump it up to 26 just to make it even more unlikely the party can't fight back. If anyone still continues to struggle hit them with a 'merciful intensified snowball' or the entire room with a 'merciful, intensified fireball'. That should be enough to knock out low level adventurers no matter what they have.
Then teleport away. This isn't the BBGs lair.
Also the note should be unsealed, so the party feels free to read it before handing it over.
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