What Happens When Undead Change Alignment?


Lost Omens Campaign Setting General Discussion


Undead are always Evil in Pathfinder (except ghosts, but they don't really count). So would it be possible for a sentient undead to change its alignment? For example, I've always wondered what would happen if you put a Helm of Opposite Alignment on a lich or vampire. Would it die? Come back to life? Explode?


Other than an existential crisis about feeding I rather suspect not much happens. Per Paizo undead are nearly always evil. They have avoided explaining this, mostly. Since I haven't seen anyone suggest that in game allignment is a psychological condition, why should an allignment shift cause a physical change, though perhaps psychosomatic illness has a greater effect on a being kept alive by negative energy? Now if in your game you posit that Allignment is mystical not psychological thing, then their would be effects, not clear what you want it to be, but I think true death is most likely. I suspect in most tables, undead are evil to avoid any moral crisis in killing a sentient once (human) foe.


Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

There's a little discussion about vampire alignment in Blood of the Night if I'm remembering correctly. There's talk of Vampires becoming neutral primarily due to a desire to be left alone, so it seems like changing their alignment would not kill the vampire.


It's canon that

Spoiler:
Runelord Alderpash, a lich

is capable of being redeemed, though the circumstances for it are exceptional. So intelligent undead are capable of becoming non-evil, it is simply exceptionally difficult and few are inclined to do so.


Presumably most non-evil people who were souls trapped in a cadaver would voluntarily die and head off to a happy afterlife. Hanging around in such a form also risks corrupting your soul (again).

Evil undead makes more sense because the afterlife of the evil (on the lower planes) is demonstrably bad!


Jevon, you are presuming that voluntarily dying is an option for an undead, they may not have that option, and may even have to make many will rolls to starve themselves, face the terrible sun, or what have you. Does make undead creation rather more evil, and undead themselves more tragic.


Undead being evil goes back from Pathfinder to all the prior iterations of D&D. I once read that it's part of being sustained by negative energies. Not a great explanation but that was the one TSR offered back in the day.

That said I think the more intelligent and free-willed undead would be able to do so. What would happen to their abilities I don't know, except that anything that might be powered by negative energy (should they change to a good alignment) would be done away with.


I would play it that using those negative energy powers warps you to evil, like casting evil spells. Yes I know Society rules ignore this, but to be fair I mostly ignore Society play. Surviving undead tend to go evil. Those that don't use their powers to feed tend to die, so take themselves out of the statistics.

Radiant Oath

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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

That's pretty much it.

Here's an example from Carrion Crown:
In Book 5 of the Adventure Path, Ashes at Dawn, one of the enemies the PCs encounter is a paladin who was turned into a vampire against his will. This caused him to fall, and his alignment shifted to evil. If the PCs cast an atonement spell on him, it snaps him out of his evil alignment, and he immediately decides to watch the sunrise so he can die while his mind and will are truly his own, and if prevented from doing so, his alignment will revert to evil again as his vampiric impulses reassert themselves.

Being undead messes up your head basically, overwriting your original personality with evil, while those who willingly become undead usually already HAVE messed up heads to begin with. And for undead "lucky" enough to be subjected to alignment-changing magic, their reaction is basically like a coming out of a mental haze or sobering up after being drunk, and realizing with horror what they did in that state, and then usually immediately asking whoever magicked them to end it all now, while they can still think clearly.

Dark Archive

MidsouthGuy wrote:
Undead are always Evil in Pathfinder (except ghosts, but they don't really count).

Why don't ghosts count? I was about to point out Ordellia Whilwren. Haha.


Actually ghosts are the big corner case undead types. They have no standard creation requirements, they don't need to feed, and actually they just aren't really like other undead. They are more on the lines of mortals become spirits. In game, there are many actual ghostlike beings that blur the lines between ghosts and undead. These are mostly listed as evil. Also, friendly and helpful ghosts are and have been so much a part of fantasy and gamer lore that their Canon rather precedes and preempts Pathfinder's.

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