A friend of mine is considering some backup PC concepts and isn't sure if they really work out well in actual use. This is for a campaign going from 7th to around 18th.
1) Warpriest dual wielding starknives. Weapon damage based on WP level and is a thrown weapon. So can spec on a weapon that has high damage both in melee and range.
2) Class undecided dual wielding Klar with breakaway boss for a couple of alchemical effects each fight. Have crafter in group to make lots of cheap alchemical items.
3) The mecha pilot build from the forums. Does it actually work well in play?
4) The rock thrower build from the forums. Does it actually work well in play?
5) PC build with earth glide. Grapple, move into the ground, then leave them there.
6) PC with flight. Grapple, fly, drop.
7) Arcane trickster using touch, ray, spectral hand to easily land spells with sneak attack.
1) Warpriest is cool, and if you go the throwing route, look at Startoss Style. I always love throwing builds even if they aren't the best.
2) Seems impractical, but I do love shield builds. Look at the Shield Champion archetype for the Brawler. You can do lots of great things with Shields and sniping an enemy with a shield + alchemic item seems like a lot of fun.
3+4) Fun concepts are always great at the table as long as they aren't hot garbage or NPC classes.
5+6) These will likely get your PC a fast grave by the GM.
5 & 6 have a technical problem. Need to Pin before you can move the creature. So you are a bit vulnerable.
Also as a GM that character would get grapple/pinned by a demon and then teleport/dropped into a volcano. Or maybe the negative energy plane. Either way, its a huge no.
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I thought demons could only teleport themselves. ;)
I guess we didn't think it would be that bad. Only single target. You have to be able to grapple and pin target. So that eliminates a lot of opponents right there just on size alone. Plus a lot of things have great CMD's for grappling.
For 6 especially, falling damage isn't extreme unless you carry them for a long time while they are fighting free. Lots of builds can kill most things after 3+ rounds of working on them.
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2 makes me wonder if that character will be Ok in the late game. The saves on alchemical stuff is low. The damage doesn't scale either.
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For late game, I was think more along using splash magic potions and oils. If the basic dual wielding klars is viable.
1) It's a good combo; should work just fine.
2) It'll work, but I'm personally not a fan of the dual-wield-shields builds.
3) It works but you absolutely need to ensure you run this past your GM and ensure both you and the GM know the rules so you can just run it without having to look stuff up all the time.
4) Should work fine
5) The setup required to pull this off would be difficult, and since "underground" would count as a hazardous location to a creature without a burrow speed they'd get a free chance to break the grapple with a +4 bonus once you actually got around to moving them. Overall I don't see this working too well.
6) Falling damage doesn't deal enough to be worth this kind of setup.
7) This is a fairly solid build. Use Accomplished Sneak Attacker to qualify with only one level of Rogue, and you're getting in with only one lost caster level. Definitely a solid pick.
5 & 6 have a technical problem. Need to Pin before you can move the creature. So you are a bit vulnerable.
Also as a GM that character would get grapple/pinned by a demon and then teleport/dropped into a volcano. Or maybe the negative energy plane. Either way, its a huge no.
...I thought demons could only teleport themselves. ;)
I guess we didn't think it would be that bad. Only single target. You have to be able to grapple and pin target. So that eliminates a lot of opponents right there just on size alone. Plus a lot of things have great CMD's for grappling.
For 6 especially, falling damage isn't extreme unless you carry them for a long time while they are fighting free. Lots of builds can kill most things after 3+ rounds of working on them.
Any character build that centers around exploiting the rules rather than using their own powers and abilities is going to be looked down on. It doesn't matter if you plan on levitating boulders and dropping them or moving things to where they would naturally die, you aren't killing them the environment is.
Maybe if the rules are what kills your opponent you shouldn't get any xp for the encounter? Either way, with so many ways to get the job done without abusing environmental rules to kill things I just see it as exploitative without adding anything to the game.
Eh, I can sorta see your point. Didn't seem that bad to us. Not sure how different that seems to me than conjuring creatures. And I have seen PC's that try to magically drop things on enemies. No one seemed to mind. But we aren't set on it or anything. Just thinking about options. We like wierd and unique builds. Certainly wouldn't do it if the GM or other players don't like it. We always run everything odd by everyone before we proceed lock into playing it.
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3) It works but you absolutely need to ensure you run this past your GM and ensure both you and the GM know the rules so you can just run it without having to look stuff up all the time.
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Yeah, the more we looked into this the more complex it seems. We think this might be so complex that it ends up not being fun even though it is kind of a kool concept. Not sure yet, but leaning away from this one.
I think he's leaning toward 1) or 7). But the rock thrower just sounds hilarious.
As afr as those grapple based builds go...
Brawler, with the flying one, play a strix
Manuever training will get you a bonus to grapple.
Invest in stealth
Take bushwhack as a feat, allows you to pin a surprised foe in one go, take chokehold to keep them silent, then fly up into the sky
(Or ditch them in the dirt)
Of course,byou could also just take the throat slicer feat, wield a tri-bladed katar in one hand, and a Dan bong in the other, take grabbing style feats to remove the penalty for 1 handed grapples, and make it easier to move the victim, if they don't want to go up or down, use throat Spicer to coup de Grace
Some items to help
Brawling armor
(Dan bong again)
Guantets if skilled manuever
Belt of Superior manuever (custom item, 1.5 x the cost to add it to your belt of incredible dex, or giant strength, if you do go dex, take agile manuever)
You can also take the serpentine squeeze trait
And if you want equipment trick tangoefoot bag, to really stick it to your opponent ;D
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7) This is a fairly solid build. Use Accomplished Sneak Attacker to qualify with only one level of Rogue, and you're getting in with only one lost caster level. Definitely a solid pick.
Alternatively, use Vivisectionist Alchemist instead of Rogue. Same +1d6 Sneak Attack, but you get Intelligence-dependent Extracts (not very many, but nice to have for things like patching yourself up a bit after a fight or a failed trap disarm), Brew Potion, Throw Anything (Alchemist Edition, better than the feat), and Mutagen (Dex Mutagen or occasionally Con Mutagen could be useful, and either way, it stacks with Enhancement Bonus spells). The 4 main disadvantages are no free Weapon Finesse (assuming that Unchained Rogue is available -- otherwise moot point), no Trapfinding, 4 fewer starting skill points, and the fact Stealth is not a class skill for you(**) until you get your first level of Arcane Trickster. A couple of (usually) lesser disadvantages are slightly worse weapon proficiency (for instance, if you wanted to do something special with a Rapier, Sap, or Shortbow), and lack of access to Rogue archetypes (if you wanted something that any of them replace at 1st level).
(*)In some campaigns might be fixable with Skill Unlock (Disable Device); in Mummy's Mask, fixable with a campaign trait; once you can cast 2nd level spells, temporarily fixable with the spell Aram Zey's Focus, which also gives you a few rerolls in case you mess up.
(**)You could fix this with a trait, although that is semi-wasted once you do get your first level of Arcane Trickster. Without spending a trait, do note that if the times you need the highest possible Stealth are reasonably short (specifically, less than or equal to 10 minutes), you can almost fake it with your Dex Mutagen, which (for short periods) falls just 1 point short of making up for this lack. Note that once you do get your first level of Arcane Trickster, this continues to work.