Play test experience feedback (1-26 spoilers)


Character Operations Manual Playtest General Discussion


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So I played in 1-26: Truth of the Seeker in what amounted to a full playtest session. The party was 2 Biohackers, 1 Witchwarper, and 2 Vanguards.
I will mention the GM was awesome and we had a lot of fun with it.

One of the Biohackers was a hilarious Icon working for a company selling healing consumables.

Anyways, my biohacker was:

Spoiler:

Level 4 Scholar Android Biohacker
NG Medium Android
Init: +4; Senses: Darkvision (60 ft), low-light vision; Perception +11

Defense
EAC: 19; KAC 19
Fort +4; Ref +5; Wil +5

Offense
Speed: 30 ft
Melee: Survival Knife +7, 1d4+2 S
Ranged: Medic Injector Pistol /w Sniper Scope /w Called Fusion +9, 1d6+2 Injection;Crit DC+2

Statistics
Str 10 (+0); Dex 18 [16 base] (+4); Con 10 (+0); Int 18 (+4); Wis 10 (+0); Cha 9 (-1)
Skills: Computers +11; Culture +11; Engineering +11; Life Science +12; Medicine +11; Perception +11; Physical Science +11; Sense Motive +9; Sleight of Hand +11;
Feats: Weapon Focus: Small Arms, Barricade

Abilities: Custom Scanner, Injection Expert, Injections (8/day), Counter Agents, restoratives, Primary Field: Genetics,
Scientific Method: Studious, Hampering Counter Agent, Quick Load, Spark of Ingenuity 1/day

Equipment: Defrex Hide, Medic Injector Pistol /w Called Fusion, Sniper Scope, Survival Knife, Darts (60), Industrial Backpack, travel Clothes, Serum of Healing (10),
50' Cable line Titanium Alloy, Hacking Kit, Engineering Kit, Trapsmith's tools, +2 Dex Personal Upgrade
Languages: Common, Castrovelian, Kasatha, Shirren, Eoxian, Vesk, Aklo, Triaxian, Vercite, Ysoki

The other biohacker was human (I think) and had 14 Dex and 20 Int (18+2). He also was Studious, hampering agent, and genetics primary. Similar skill spread but he had Diplomacy and Bluff and profession. I think he didn't have computers and engineering.

I rolled Culture, Life Science, Perception, Sense motive, Physical Science during the adventure. Character felt useful out of combat with a very broad skill base, but not because of any of the class abilities. Just raw skills.
On occasion I did do a silly sleight of hand check to try to "secretly scan stuff" - I was playing a xenobiologist Android interested in genetic engineering and recording data for use back in the lab. Semi-mad scientist type. I also scanned alot of tea for poison, just because. However, nothing any other character with a chemanalyzer or medkit and the same skills couldn't do.

As I built the character, and thought about how I might level the character, I realized a couple things.

1) Biohackers are quadratic in their key stat. This means they really, really want a starting 18 in either Int or Wis (really just Int).
For example, at 1st level a 14 key stat means your debuffs last 1 round, your buffs last 2, and you can do it 3 times per day.
If you have an 18 key stat, your debuffs last 2 rounds, your buffs last 4, and you can do it 5 times.
10 rounds of debuff versus 3 rounds. Or 20 rounds of buff versus 6.

At 2nd level if you take Field dressing, 14 Int can heal 4 hit points per day, while 18 Int heals 16 hit points per day. This feels like it restricts the types of viable builds at low level. Having a literal factor of 300% to 400% in the effectiveness of some abilities between a starting 14 and 18 at low levels I think is too much.

By the time you're say, level 10, this is less extreme, say 20 Int versus 24 Int. Now its 2 rounds of debuff per application versus 3. 15 uses per day versus 17.
Or in other words, 30 rounds of debuff versus 51 rounds, although by that point either is probably enough to get you through 3 combats a day.
However, there are even more abilities (breakthroughs) which are dependent directly on their uses per day by your key stat, being used 5 or 7 times a day (40% more).

I feel no other class scales so strongly with their key stat, and have options where they can get away without having it be maxed.

2) I had no way to spend resolve points other than restoring stamina. Everything keys of your key stat in its usage (except for a single 8th level discovery). Which extends their debuff duration.

3) The custom scanner seems weak. Its a free medkit and chemanalyzer. I gave up my entire first turn of the final boss encounter to move within 30 feet (trivial move and attack range for the boss), and then use it, where as the Vanguards simply rolled mysticism from where they stood (although they rolled poorly).

Spoiler:
Turns out it was an aberration, and a minor mistake on the correct skill to use had been made. If we had done it right, I should have been able to simply roll life science from where I stood, so that was a mistake discovered after the fact. So had we done it right, I would never have used it for anything meaningful this game. Instead it used up an entire turn and put the character at greater risk.

I don't see the point of the improved scanners increasing your life sciences/physical sciences for crafting serums only, and only by 1 or 2 points at extremely high level. As far as I can tell, the custom scanner doesn't even count as the appropriate tools for crafting serums.

4) Why does this class only get a single high save and no skill insight bonuses? Its very broad in skills, but merely okay at them. One of the players has a Scholar Soldier with basically all the same life/physical sciences, plus computer and engineering, basically fill the same role at except only at a penalty of -2 (i.e. 14 Int instead of 18).
At 5th level, its only going to be 1 point difference. I feel like when you're doing roughly the same as a Soldier could do, you're not a particularly skill focused class.

Anyways, moving on from build to actual combat play.

Combat spoilers:

Spoiler:
First combat played to the strengths of the party. We were all ranged strikers first (including the Vanguards, they were both switch hitters), against a bunch of strong melee attackers.
Everyone other than myself was carrying sonic ranged weapons as well.

1st turn went something like:
Perception checks of 29 and 32, realize enemy is there
First enemy "boss" moves into view, cover by a wall and shoots and misses.
1st Biohacker misses
2nd Biohacker applies -2 AC and -10 movement to boss (2 round duration)
Witchwarper uses infinite world directly in front of the slowed primary enemy
Two enemy minions decide to climb over the 10 foot high walls rather than go through the difficult terrain based on their positioning (it was faster), but that was basically a double move for both to get around to be able to get to range
Vanguards shoot the boss

2nd turn:
Boss tries to walk 20 feet around the difficult terrain and shoots a vanguard (for 7 of course, so no EP).
1st Biohacker hits, applies sonic vulnerability and -10 movement (2 round duration)
2nd Biohacker shoots a minion and applies -2 AC and -10 movement (2 round duration)
Witchwarper hits boss with sonic rifle (150% damage)
Minions engage vanguards (positioned to make it hard to reach the caster/biohackers) Damage is dealt
Vanguard punches back with entropic strik

3rd turn:
Boss has a speed of 10 feet, and can't actually move and standard action charge to reach anyone, and takes a pot shot.
1st Biohacker shoots his second weapon, a sonic pistol, hits and the Boss hits its morale threshold and gives up
2nd Biohacker just shoots for damage on a minion
Witchwarper shoots a minion
Vanguards punch minions

4th turn:
Minions are shot
Minions attack and hit
Vanguards punch minion down

End result: 5 injections used, 1 infinite world, 3 resolve points to recover stamina, no hp damage, some ammo

I was kind of suprised how effective the -20 movement from two biohackers plus difficult terrain made it for a primarly melee enemy.
The vanguards being switch hitters simply waited for the enemy to come to them rather than trying to charge forward. Once the melee enemy actually arrived, their huge stamina pools (40 and 44) and melee abilities easily absorbed the attacks, while maintaing okay damage output.
They never bother using their EP points. Ranged they were +10, 2d4+4 So and +8 2d4+4 So, while in melee they were +9 1d3+6 A/B and +9, 1d3+7 A/B.
The situation was so well in hand, the Witchwarper didn't even need to use spells and basically made difficult terrain and fired their rifle (+8 to hit, 2d4+4 So damage).
Also, literally everyone's EAC/KAC in the adventure was 19/19. (20/20 when the Vanguards got their 1 EP).

The second and final fight was not as easy.

This was an end boss fight against a CR 7 with 5 level 4 players. Enemy was incorporeal and ~120 hit points, which caused a lot of questions, which we made up answers on the fly.

Since the creature was living and not immune to poison, we ruled it could be affected by the vulnerability poison.

We were under the impression that a non-magical medical injector would simply not affect an incorporeal creature, which the other biohacker had, so he didn't even bother shooting it (he just used his sonic pistol).
I had a called fusion on my injector pistol, so we assumed that would at least inject. We ended up forgetting about the 50% chance of corporeal effects not applying to an incorporeal creature and didn't roll them.
We did remember to halve all damage dealt though.

1st round: We incorrectly figured Mysticism was needed to identify it (being some kind of religious temple and it being incorporeal and all). The Vanguard to go first failed to identify it with their Mysticism roll, and moved in and just shot it. Did some minor damage.
So on my turn I moved up into the room with my move action to get within 30 feet and use Life Science to identify. Which I succeeded and discovered it was an Aberation, which should have used life science in the first place. Oh well, that was my first turn.
We learned it didn't resist physical or sonic, that it was living, and that it wasn't immune to poison, so good enough.
2nd Vanguard moved in and shot.
The boss moved up to a Vanguard, and hits them on a 36 (which was not a natural 20), dealing 16 damage (out of 40) and draining 2 wisdom. We all go bleep as our Vanguard drops to 8 Wis and we realize our 19 or 20 AC isn't going to be much to +17 or more to hit. Full attacks are going to be bad, so we all agree this fight is a guarded step and shoot type fight to prevent full attacks.
2nd Biohacker shoots sonic pistol
Witchwarper starts spamming Summon Creature (2nd level Fire elemental). We figure difficult terrain doesn't affect incorporeal creatures so no funny movement business was possible.

2nd Round: Vanguard guarded steps away, shoots.
I go Spark of Ingenouity for -2 AC and Vulnerability, and roll a 3+9=12 KAC to hit, and completely miss. So much for my 1/day ability. I move away.
Vanguard guarded steps away and shoots.
Boss uses some kind of gravity power but the Vanguard saves. The boss decides to move next to the "hostage" at the center, effectively threatening to kill them unless somebody else presents themselves to be hit in melee.
Fire Elemental pops into existance, swings and misses, but stays there in melee.
Witchwraper casts summon creature again (3 1st level Proteans)
2nd Biohacker fires sonic pistol

Turns basically proceed with Boss wiping out 2 summons each turn, while we slowly wittle away hit points at 50% damage. I eventually land a sonic vulnerability, so its more like 75% damage.
Vanguards got EP, but its only use was to reduce physical damage, their wisdom was going to run out first anyways.
MVP was the Witchwarper who basically used summons to tank for 4 or 5 turns. One Vanguard never landed a hit, even though their rolling full attacks most of the time. If you can't roll higher than an 8, +10 or +8 with a stabilized bipod full attack doesn't matter.
If it had been undead (such as a ghost or something immune to poison) we'd probably just have lost (or had to run, effectively losing the scenerio).

Summary
Biohacker
1) For the Biohacker, we all agreed we liked the flavor, but the majority opinion was it was too limited, and seemed to be missing things other classes had for no good reason (only 1 good save, no skill insight bonuses) and suprisingly merely average at skills. At mid and high levels an Operative is simply going to be superior in that department, while doing better damage and potentially better debuffs. At 4th level and in this adventure, the Biohacker felt like a 2 trick pony.

2) In its current incarnation in this playtest, neither of the Biohackers felt we would want to play it long term, as a lot of it feels like its limited in who it applies to, or simply doesn't scale. It doesn't feel like its got the flexibility in combat for something that is trying to be a science caster. Compare the +1 enhancement AC bonus restorative to the witchwarper's +1 to +3 enhancement AC for rounds per level and applied to others for a resolve point.

3) Also, I'll mention, using your 1/day ability and getting nothing out of it just feels bad. I suppose that is advantage of building a strength based Biohacker and using your spark of ingenuity in a melee injection weapon, but such a character would probably have died in the final encounter (or simply not contributed). Certainly in this case trying to hit KAC upwards of 19 or so with +4 to hit in melee and no damage seemed less useful (and also a non-option because of incorporeal).

4) We never bothered using the something like 25+ healing serums we had between 5 playtest characters, so raw healing abilities wouldn't have helped. Although if we were level 5, the Genetics ignore ability damage for 1 minute would have meant being able to pick allies up off the floor who had dropped to 0 Wis (or prevent them from dropping in the first place) in at least one fight.

Vanguard
1) The Vanguards weren't built as melee fighters, but as switch hitters, and both agreed that worked really well. If the enemy stayed away, they just used a move action to stabilize with a bipod and made full attacks at +8 or +6 to hit for 2d4+4 twice. Amusingly, with full attacks using a bipod stabilized longarm, their expected damage for the 20 Dex/14 Con build was higher than in melee full attacking even if they had 16 Dex/18 Con (for example).
If the enemy closed, they still had respectable melee damage. Since they were switch hitters, they went with the Boundary aspect (gain 1 EP when missed).

2) Their EP effectively didn't make any difference to any fights in this case, other than for +1 AC (which I don't think mattered for any hits). They didn't get to use Dampen, for example.

3)For full BAB class, they felt they got a fair use of a few of their skills (acrobatics was used, so was physical science and finally mysticism - which turned out to be key at one point).

Witchwarper
1) The Witchwarper was an Ace pilot Halfing, and used compound sight on their piloting skill, and also had acrobatics, Diplomacy and bluff. They made a couple diplomacy checks, a piloting check (which they flubbed with a 2) and that was about it in terms of skills.

2) They had shifting step, but never used it.

3) They did use infinite worlds and found it effective against melee enemies. They also happened to like Summon Creature alot (and was literally the only spell they ended up casting). T

4) They were a decent shot with a rifle, focusing more on Dex than Cha. Overall they seemed to be happy with it, but mostly simply because it was a reasonably accurate gunner plus caster.


That seems to be a common theme with Vaguards. Their "EP doesn't matter". It's kinda disappointing that a major class feature can just be ignored.


KLGChaos wrote:
That seems to be a common theme with Vaguards. Their "EP doesn't matter". It's kinda disappointing that a major class feature can just be ignored.

Well that is probably good feedback now while they are still working on things. I have seen this coment a fair bit as well that in play EP doesn't wind up getting used/mattering much. They still seem like a solid class even without it but that mechanic I think needs some tweaking/revisions to make people both want to use them more and be able to do so.

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