I think one of the problems with this kind of thing is that certain feats and abilities require a lot of prerequisites. A player might have a very simple concept in mind - one that only really requires a couple of feats to achieve - only to find that the important feats have a huge list of requirements.
One way around this might be to relax some requirements. I've thought about removing Combat Expertise, Dodge, Power Attack, Two Weapon Fighting and Weapon Finesse from the game and simply allowing every character to use them as standard combat options. This would free up a feat or 2 for almost every character and would hopefully see some more variation in character builds. These are all early feats, so even though there are a lot of them none are super powerful. I haven't actually tried this though so I'm not really sure how it would go.
You could do the same thing but with Teamwork feats and probably steer your characters in a certain way.
Or you could go the other way and give them less choice - The player choses half the feats and the GM choses the other half. You'd have to discuss this with them before the campaign starts, say the GM gets to choose every second feat. You'd choose based on what you think the character has been training rather than what the player is building towards. If you go this rout I would try to give them good feats that they'll feel happy about without just going for the ones they tell you they want. It's a tough line to walk and you'd need a group that trusts you, but it could be fun. Again I haven't tried this, so it could be disastrous =P
I'm interested to hear what people think.
The players who plan out far in advance are probably never going to go for your spontaneous development.
I think the best you can do is offer free additional feats, traits, etc to enhance their characters with non-combat relevant bonuses and round out their characters. Something akin to campaign traits or feats that you find in some Paizo sources., or the story progression feats.
By making them free you wont upset your players, but you can get some more spontaneous selections.
By definition if it is forced it is not spontaneous. Trying to do so is going to be counterproductive and probably result in more planning. For example if you did the curse you mention it will probably cause your characters to optimize for killing a bear.
3.5 had an oprional variant where you did not need to have the prerequisites for prc. Instead you had to pass various tests, based on those prereqs, before you could start taking levels in the prc.
I also allow pcs to take a prc and take some of the prereqs at that point. Say a prc has prereq of 3 feats but a pc only has 1 of the 3. They take the class and their next 2 feats have to be the 2 they are short.
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I'd suggest add, not take away.
Come up with a list of trait level bonus abilities that the players will be given as for free every few levels. I'd aim to give each player a choice of one of three, based on things that their character did up to that point. Mostly I'd be looking at non-combat rather than combat based abilities, hopefully ones that will add a little depth to the characters and let them develop in ways beyond their original build without being forced into anything or having their character development taken away from them.
I would though add that I think you need to really reconsider the 'What punishment can I find to make players do what I want' mindset. This rarely results in a successful and fun campaign.
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I'd suggest add, not take away.
Come up with a list of trait level bonus abilities that the players will be given as for free every few levels. I'd aim to give each player a choice of one of three, based on things that their character did up to that point. Mostly I'd be looking at non-combat rather than combat based abilities, hopefully ones that will add a little depth to the characters and let them develop in ways beyond their original build without being forced into anything or having their character development taken away from them.
I would though add that I think you need to really reconsider the 'What punishment can I find to make players do what I want' mindset. This rarely results in a successful and fun campaign.
These seem like some really good ideas.
One example would be after a PC makes a skill role that greatly affects the campaign or 'saves the day', to grant that PC a free trait that gives them a +1 to that Skill and makes it a class skill (assuming it wasn't already) or allows them to use a favored Attribute for that skill. Another would be less tangible sorts of rewards, like rescuing merchant X from way back in the 2nd scene turns out to be a huge benefit later as they will buy plundered goods for 60% of their value, rather than 50%, or they'll provide a place to stay in town, eliminating housing / inn costs, or talk up your characters to their friends / family / customers so that they get intangible bonuses from other NPCs in town.
Story awards similar to story feats could also be an option. Party destroys an evil artifact / altar at the climax of one a story arc? The party finds that when they bargain with a good Outsider as part of a Calling spell, the costs are reduced, because they've 'got a reputation' in celestial circles...
Don't make some sort of 'rule' that this sort of thing happens when someone rolls a 20 or something, because that takes the power out of your hands (and could result in someone trying to game the system and making all sorts of skill checks all the time, hoping for a 20...).
Keep the power in the GMs hands, and try to spread it out and reward good and effective gameplay, and not reward glory hogging or drama-queening or min-maxing as much as just teamwork and situations that everyone enjoys.
One possibility might be to hand out a free bonus feat of your choice to each of the players at some point in the game. The players won't feel deprived (because you took nothing away from them), but they might change his mind about other aspects of his character because of the unexpected bonus you handed out.
Above all else: communicate with your players, describe what you want (characters that grow organically into well-rounded characters based on their experience rather than optimized for party role), and make sure the enemies they face aren’t the sort that can only be defeated by a party that played by the conventional feat trees :)
1) Discussion with your players, share your thoughts with them that you want them to love their characters for what makes them so, and not love them because they are dominating the game. The greatest aspect of pathfinder is the communal storytelling, not the winning part. If they want the loot maxing, game beating, one upping stuff then they should be playing some sort of video game or something. Winner is not the Role in role playing.
2) Share with them that the game is supposed to be challenging, and will be regardless. Whether my PCs make OP min-maxed or weak charming but useless little buggers, I always always doctor their encounters to make them balanced and challenging.
3) Challenge them to add some sort of character or story development when deciding upon their level ups, and try to tie it into the game. This also requires a lot of work on the GM's end to make sure that their personal stories or backgrounds are coming out in the adventure too.
In the end, all you can do is explain your thoughts and just hope your friends can acknowledge and respect your interests in the game. After all, you are doing by far the most work, and should be able to enjoy yourself as well.
To make a pre-planned character work, you need to know the endpoint you are aiming for. Remove that knowledge, and you you loose incentive for such plans.
Simplest way to do this is not to play an Adventure Path. These have a theme, and half known endpoint. Whereas if you play random modules, the PCs never know what will be needed later.
/cevah
To make a pre-planned character work, you need to know the endpoint you are aiming for. Remove that knowledge, and you you loose incentive for such plans.
Simplest way to do this is not to play an Adventure Path. These have a theme, and half known endpoint. Whereas if you play random modules, the PCs never know what will be needed later.
/cevah
This does nothing to disincentivise people from building towards certain feats or prestige classes.
Instead of free feats and traits, you can scatter feats and traits throughout the campaign in the form of tomes, ancient magical texts that, after some period of vigorous study, grant a specific feat or trait. This way, they are still earned and not just given away,the are rewards for getting to the bottom of the dungeon, or saving the princess, or bribing the high wizard, or seducing the succubus, or achieving whatever personal goal that PC has. Alternatively, a high master monk can train the party fighter in a Style Feat, or a great wizard can train the party sorcerer in a Metamagic Feat.
Also, there's the Feat Tax rules and Alternate Bonus Progression, which both free up builds for those more unique feats and magic items rather than the same old standards.
Another idea to inspire and encourage variation in builds is to introduce those niche feats via handbuilt NPCs. If your PCs encounter a feat or trick they've never seen before, and especially if it's used against them in a memorable way, they might be inspired to use it later on.