Channel negative / spontaneous cures (or channel positive / spontaneous inflict)

[sdaly]

Have a player who is building a neutral cleric who worships a homebrew god of balance, trade,etc. He likes the idea of channeling negative energy and spontaneous cure spells (or vice versa) due to the god being fond of staying neutral in affairs. I don't see a problem with it, but is there any official reason why that can't be allowed?

[Kiesman]

There isn't any official REASON other than for flavour. There's feats allowing you to do both, so I see no reason why you can't DM fiat allow the mixed options. Giving both Channels and both Spontaneous all at once might be a bit much IMO, but if they have to choose for each... why not?

[sdaly]

That's what I thought. Makes it more interesting that way. He's leaning towards channeling negative as he's hoping to use it as an AOE vs bad guys. Hope he doesn't forget when he runs into the undead...

[LordKailas]

Just remember that when it comes to channeling, you have to specify both the energy type and if you are trying to heal or harm.

If he runs into undead and tries to harm with negative energy he won't heal them instead. But any allies unlucky enough to not be excluded will be harmed by it.

[Thedmstrikes]

Sorry gang, but this is answered in the CRB under channeling heading in the Cleric class section:

CRB wrote:

A neutral cleric of a neutral deity (or one who is not devoted to a particular deity) must choose whether she channels positive or negative energy. Once this choice is made, it cannot be reversed. This decision also determines whether the cleric can cast spontaneous cure or inflict spells (see spontaneous casting).

[sdaly]

But then under spontaneous casting you have -

Quote:

A cleric who is neither good nor evil and whose deity is neither good nor evil can convert spells to either cure spells or inflict spells (player’s choice). Once the player makes this choice, it cannot be reversed. This choice also determines whether the cleric channels positive or negative energy (see channel energy).

Reading it, it can seem like once you decide that's it, you're stuck with that choice no matter what for each individually OR the two are connected no matter what. I haven't found anything that specifically says if you channel negative you must pick inflict spells or vice versa. I'm ruling it as viable for now.

[sdaly]

LordKailas wrote:

Just remember that when it comes to channeling, you have to specify both the energy type and if you are trying to heal or harm.

If he runs into undead and tries to harm with negative energy he won't heal them instead. But any allies unlucky enough to not be excluded will be harmed by it.

That's pretty much what I meant. I made the mistake once - I was wading into melee and throwing out a channel to hurt everyone and then suddenly I ran right into a pack of undead and whoops, forgot it didn't work until after I used it. Didn't work out well for him as I was too reliant on the channel to weaken foes first. Oh well.

[Dave Justus]

sdaly wrote:

I haven't found anything that specifically says if you channel negative you must pick inflict spells or vice versa.

You have found something that specifically says if you channel negative you must pick inflict spells or vice versa and you quoted it.

This choice (cure or inflict) also determines whether the cleric channels positive or negative energy. As Thedmstrikes it says the same under channeling, that the choice is linked. 'Determines' means choosing choosing 'cure' is also choosing 'positive'.

You have one (this) choice: Positive channel and spontaneous cures OR Negative channel and spontaneous inflict. That single choice effects two class abilities.

I believe this is a flavor thing, and not a balance thing and I don't see any harm in house ruling it otherwise, but the rules are quite clear hear.

[BlarkNipnar]

There is some balance harm:
* When you choose Positive you can't harm Living creatures with your abilities
* When you choose Negative you can't harm Undead creatures or heal Living Creatures

This is a giant balance difference. Obviously a cleric in the general case would like to have it mixed because if he can turn every utility spell into a harm spell while providing full healing; he's able to do the former much better. Similarly, one who can blast negative energy while being a reasonable healer can end up being a reasonable blaster without any downside. Further, the blaster version can still run up to undead and "cure" them as well; making them basically bypass DR on any creature, against touch AC, while still being a healer.

I would not let a player do this personally as I already know how it'll turn out. Either be a healer or don't be. The 'Trade god' excuse is super weak imo