Surprise Rounds

[SpartanKing14]

So the scenario I have in mind is that the pcs are talking to a teifling in an enclosed room, and hidden in the room are two wyrwoods waiting for the teifling’s darkness to attack. Let’s say the pcs fail to perceive the wyrwoods. Things go sour and the teifling uses darkness, which is a spell-like ability and has no components. I know the wyrwoods would get a surprise round, but would the teifling?

[Syries]

The surprise round is triggered by the teifling attempting to use the darkness SLA. Typically there's a bluff check made by the person attempting to surprise the foes, opposed by a sense motive check. Those that succeed at the sense motive check can also act in the surprise round.

On the surprise round, roll initiative normally, and have the teifling cast darkness as their surprise round action. All others who get to act in the surprise round, including the wyrwoods, would then be able to act.

[GinoA]

The Wyrwoods would need to make the Sense Motive check to act in the surprise round. Although, they'd likely get a hefty bonus (I'd probably go +8) from expecting the Tiefling's plan. They still need to notice the cue in time to react in that first couple seconds.

[Syries]

GinoA wrote:

The Wyrwoods would need to make the Sense Motive check to act in the surprise round.

No they wouldn't, if their surprise round condition is to enter combat when the teifling casts darkness. They're already expecting to go in, they're just waiting for their cue.

That's like saying multiple people coordinating an ambush needs to make sense motive checks on their allies to act, when the actual condition is when the enemy steps into their line of effect.

[SpartanKing14]

Alright, thanks guys!

[Mysterious Stranger]

Actually if the wrywoods are waiting for the Teifling to use its darkness ability they only get a surprise round if he does. If the Teifling is unable to act in the surprise round then by the time he does the surprise round is over and the wyrwoods have wasted the surprise round.

If a character delays his action to wait for another character to go first they have to go after that character even if they normally go first. So unless the Teifling is able to surprise the party there is no surprise round unless the wyrwoods decide to act before the Teifling in which case he will not have cast darkness yet.

[Syries]

I'm imagining the scenario:
A teifling has given orders to wyrwoods to attack if he casts darkness. When the PCs walk in, the teifling is expecting and is prepared to fight. When the negotiations go south, the teifling makes a bluff check. If two of the 5 PCs make their sense motive check, those two can act.
Surprise round starts. One of the two PCs got higher initiative than the teifling and drew their weapon and moves up.
Teifling goes, 5ft steps and casts darkness. Queue wyrwoods. Their initiative is added in and they can act in this round.
The other PC and the wyrwoods go. Afterwards the rounds go as normal.

[Mark Hoover 330]

Are the Wyrwoods considered to be holding their actions for the CASTING of the Darkness, or for the Darkness to be there? It's a fine line, but the distinction might matter to Initiative. Also note that these concealed construct-folk need to either have a Ranged attack or be already positioned to attack AND they need to have their weapon already drawn.

In a Surprise round you get EITHER a Move action or a Standard action so if the Wyrwoods want to attempt to damage the PCs IN the Surprise round they need to be completely ready to do it.

So in your scenario, if the Wyrwoods are just waiting for the CASTING of the Darkness ability and have weapons at the ready, then on the Tiefling's initiative their held action for the Surprise round is triggered and they attack. If however they're waiting to attack under the cover of the Darkness ability, they will attack slightly AFTER the Tiefling's action. I don't know how other folks would do it in their game but for me I'd put the Wyrwoods 1 initiative after the Tiefling's.

[Syries]

The cue for the wyrwoods to come in is when the teifling casts darkness. they're already expecting a fight, essentially. If on the surprise round the wyrwood gets higher initiative, it holds its action until after the teifling.

[Cevah]

The wyrwoods are allowed to charge in the surprise round.
They can also do a standard to throw a held weapon or shuriken.

/cevah