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So while playing the game we ran into a fight in the water and we were very unsure how it works.
Can I use a weapon and still swim? Does it matter the size of the weapon? Is there any guidance on floating or sinking, like does a person with no armor and only a dagger float or sink? If I'm 10 ft in the water how much do I need to swim up to get to the surface? Normally calm water requires no check to swim, should fighting in calm water make the water not calm? Is casting on the surface difficult or penalized at all? Can you concentrate when under water?
SWIM
You use your arms and legs to swim through
water. In most calm water, you succeed at the action without
needing to attempt a check. If you must breathe air and you’re
submerged in water, you must hold your breath each round. If
you fail to hold your breath, you begin to drown (as described
on page 315). If the water you are swimming in is turbulent or
otherwise dangerous, you might have to attempt an Athletics
check to Swim.
If you end your turn in the water and haven’t succeeded at a
Swim action that turn, you sink down 10 feet or float up 10 feet,
Attack
Move
as determined by the GM. However, if your last action on your
turn was to enter the water, you don’t sink or float that turn.
Success You move 5 feet horizontally through the water. If
your Speed is 15 feet or greater, you move 10 feet instead,
and if your Speed is 60 feet or greater, you move 15 feet
instead. You can swim upward or downward, but doing so
counts as moving through difficult terrain.
Critical Success Per a success, but you can move an additional
5 feet.
Critical Failure You make no progress, and this action counts
as 2 actions holding your breath.
AQUATIC COMBAT
For battles underwater or while floating in water, the
following rules modify how you fight:
• You’re flat-footed unless you have a swim Speed.
• You gain resistance 5 to acid and fire.
• You take a –2 circumstance penalty to melee bludgeoning or
slashing attacks that pass through water, because either you
or your target is underwater.
• Ranged attacks that deal bludgeoning or slashing damage
automatically miss if the attacker or target is underwater,
and piercing ranged attacks made by an underwater
creature or against an underwater target have their range
increments halved.
• You can’t cast fire spells or use abilities with the fire trait
underwater.
• At the GM’s discretion, some ground-based actions might not
work underwater or while floating in water
As for concentration, I have no idea. It doesn't say you can't, which usually means it's okay.
Right, those are the rules and I feel they don't answer any of my questions.
"You use your arms and legs to swim through water." Does this mean I need two hands free and thus can't have a weapon out to swim?
"If you end your turn in the water and haven’t succeeded at a
Swim action that turn, you sink down 10 feet or float up 10 feet"
Is there any guidance on this to have a consistent flow? My GM rules that he rolled a die and odds were sink and evens float up since it said we could do either with no guidance.
Same with all the other questions, I feel the rules don't give any clear guidance on these issues.
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So while playing the game we ran into a fight in the water and we were very unsure how it works.
You're right. There's no clear guidance. Here's my thoughts on the situation.
Can I use a weapon and still swim?
Yes, because there are rules for swinging weapons, that means you can.
Does it matter the size of the weapon?
For attacks, no, the existing rules for strikes under water cover types of weapons and make no mention of size. I would just follow those rules.
Most of the time there is no swim check unless the water is turbulent. If there IS a swim check, I would impose a circumstance penalty which is, as always, up to the GM. This penalty should be between -1 and -4 (per rules in the playtest rulebook) so I imagine that -4 would be the worst possible weapon I can imagine: a huge heavy weapon with lots of weight and drag, like a greataxe perhaps. -0 would be an empty hand. -1 would be a very small, light weapon with minimal weight and drag like a dagger. I would fit all other weapons into that scale and when in doubt, favor low penalties rather than high ones.
I would probably also impose a similar penalty on shields: buckler -1, light shield -2, heavy shield-3, tower shield -4.
Is there any guidance on floating or sinking, like does a person with no armor and only a dagger float or sink?
People are generally buoyant. They float up. Swimming down is harder than swimming up for this reason, which is why divers use weight belts to offset their buoyancy. SCUBA divers (etc.) suggest a simple rule: carry 10% of your body weight in lead ballast to counteract your body's natural buoyancy.
So I would assume the default is to float up. According to the playtest book, carrying a human body is 8 bulk. 10% of that is 0.8 bulk so let's round to 1 bulk.
Therefore:
If you are carrying gear, equipment, or carried weight of 1 bulk, you have neutral buoyancy. You would not float up or down. Less bulk than that is positive buoyancy and you will float up. More bulk than that is negative buoyancy and you will sink down.
If I'm 10 ft in the water how much do I need to swim up to get to the surface?
Fun fun.
What do you mean by "10 ft in the water"? Do you mean 10' away from shore or 10' deep below the surface? If it's the former, then you might still be ON the surface and not need to swim up at all. The rules allow you to move HORIZONTALLY 10 feet with each successful swim action (more on critical successes). You only go under if you do it deliberately or if you take no action and sink 10'. So each swimmer needs to keep track of the depth, not just their distance from shore.
If it's the latter (you're 10' under water), then my thoughts are more complex:
See my point above about bulk and buoyancy.
I would say that if you have neutral buoyancy and you're 10' deep, you can easily swim to the surface in a single action since you are allowed to swim 10' on a successful swim action. With neutral buoyancy, gravity is not forcing you down so swimming up is easy. No penalties.
If you have positive buoyancy (less than 1 carried bulk) then water pressure is forcing you up. Therefore, swimming up is even easier than it is with neutral buoyancy. I would NOT call this difficult terrain even though the rules in the book say to treat it as difficult terrain.
Swimming DOWN with positive buoyancy would be difficult terrain. I would give a circumstance bonus on swim checks to swim up 10' Probably only +1.
If you have negative buoyancy (carrying more than 1 bulk) then gravity is pulling you down more than buoyancy is pushing you up, making it hard to swim up. This is when swimming up is difficult terrain, but swimming down is definitely not difficult (Google search "free diving"). I would give circumstance penalties to swim up. Perhaps -1 cumulative at 3, 5, 7, and 9 bulk carried.
Normally calm water requires no check to swim, should fighting in calm water make the water not calm?
No. Moving your arms and legs doesn't cause noticeable turbulence. I think the devs meant real turbulence like a swiftly flowing river, or a strong riptide or a water elemental's ability to create turbulence.
Is casting on the surface difficult or penalized at all?
Not by the book. I don't think it should be. It's not penalized while fighting and only takes a 20% chance of failure if grappled. Swimming isn't harder than being grappled.
Can you concentrate when under water?
I can. I suppose I can't if I'm drowning but I've never tried that and won't try that to find out.
There are rules for how much air you have and how casting spells with material or somatic actions costs 2 "actions" worth of your air and verbal spells cost all of it. None of which includes any limits on concentration, nor does concentration cause you to lose air.
Ultimately, the default rules for concentration apply: You can do it. Unless specific rules (that don't exist) override the default rules.
***
These are just my thoughts, including one slight deviation from the core rules (difficult terrain affected by buoyancy). None of this is in the book so YMMV.
Thanks DM_Blake, very well thought out responses. I'll take this to my group and hopefully we can figure out the rules we'll use.