Heal / Harm Heighten

[Casimir12]

This may have a been asked before, but I am unable to locate anything on it.

How would Heighten work with Heal/Harm? Currently after speaking with several other people we have 3 different answers among us.

I will break it down the best I can assume we are casting it at lvl 3(heighten 2 lvls).

A. This is based on the view point that if you are casting spell at a heighten lvl you get 1d8 per heighten lvl, however if you are doing 1 or 2 cast action you are getting 2d8 per heighten lvl instead of 1d8.
Lvl 3
1 or 2 casting actions = 5d8
3 casting action = 3d8

B. For 1 or 2 actions it would increase to 7d8 (1 original cast + 3d8(first heighten) + 3d8 (second heighten), if 3 action casting would be 3d8. This view is based on the caster getting 1d8 no matter what plus and addition 2d8 added if casting 1 or 2 action choice.
Lvl 3
1 or 2 casting actions = 7d8
3 casting action = 3d8

C. This option is based on the view point that it is broken down bonus 1d8 for 1 action, 2d8 for 2 action cast, and no bonus for casting 3 actions.
Lvl 3
1 or 2 casting actions = 3d8
2 casting action = 5d8
3 casting action = 1d8

[Draco18s]

The +2d8 only applies to the 1/2 action and healing (Heal targeting living things, Harm targetting unliving things).

All three of your choices are wrong.

Heal (targetting living things)
1 or 2 actions: 5d8+WIS
3 actions: 2d8+WIS

Quote:

• Material Casting, Somatic Casting, Verbal Casting

You disperse positive energy in a 30-foot aura. This has the
same effect as the two-action version, but it targets all living
and undead creatures in the burst and reduces the amount of
healing or damage to your spellcasting ability modifier.

[Casimir12]

Sorry left the wis bonus out as was not concerned with that as much as the die count part of it, and did heal/harm as they are both written same way with exception of 1 healing/1 damaging.

So guess my main question is what is the bonus for each time it lvls. looking at your example (kinda like my first view listed) Using Healing as the example.

1st lvl
1 or 2 or 3 cast action it is all the 1d8 (not including what those actions do.

2nd lvl
1 or 2 action would be 3d8
3 actions would be 2d8

3rd lvl
1 or 2 action would be 5d8
3 actions would be 2d8

4th lvl
1 or 2 action would be 7d8
3 actions would be 2d8

5th lvl
1 or 2 action would be 9d8
3 actions would be 2d8

If this is correct why would the 3 cast action not go up 1d8 every lvl as well.

[Draco18s]

3 action cast "reduces the damage to 0 dice" at first level (so your 1st level entry is wrong). Heightening increases that number by 1 for every 1 level of heighten. That is why the 3 action cast as a 3rd level spell does 2d8 and a 5th level spell does 4d8 (your 2nd, 4th, and 5th entries are wrong: they are 1d8, 3d8, and 4d8 respectively).

Additionally note that if you're dealing damage the 1 and 2 action spell's values change as well (they would be 1d8 more than the 3 action of the same level). The (ranged) touch attack would also gain the Attack trait, be subject to--and contribute to--your multiattack penalty. See Mark's reply in Bad Touch Cleric.

[Chess Pwn]

Level is the spell level
lv1 1/2 = 1d8+w, 3 = w
lv2 1/2 heal 3d8+w, 1/2 hurt 2d8+w, 3 = 1d8+w
lv3 1/2 heal 5d8+w, 1/2 hurt 3d8+w, 3 = 2d8+w
lv4 1/2 heal 7d8+w, 1/2 hurt 4d8+w, 3 = 3d8+w

The trend is healing is dice = level of first getting that spell level. harm is dice per spell level. and AoE is 1 die less than harm.

[Byron Zibeck]

Yes, the rules (as written) state that Heal/Harm increase 2-die per spell level on when used to "heal" (for want of a better word that is not the same as the spell name) HP. To deal damage or for the burst effect, they only increase 1-die per spell level. I'm not 100% sure if this was the intent or not, but that is clearly what it says .

Chess Pwn has the correct breakdown.

[Draco18s]

Byron Zibeck wrote:

Yes, the rules (as written) state that Heal/Harm increase 2-die per spell level on when used to "heal" (for want of a better word that is not the same as the spell name) HP. To deal damage or for the burst effect, they only increase 1-die per spell level. I'm not 100% sure if this was the intent or not, but that is clearly what it says

Most other damaging non-cantrip spells increase by 2 dice per level (and have crit effects) unless they're AOE, which is what contributed to my (originally incorrect) reading.

[Chess Pwn]

yup, cause clerics can't do damage with their spells. All* their direct damage follows the 1 die per level.

*(okay it might only be most, haven't really dug into it to prove all, but it's all I've seen of theirs)

[Casimir12]

Thank you everyone you have helped clear this up between my friends and I.