Suggestion: Occultism skill should be CHA based.

[Pinstripedbarbarian]

The four magical knowledges should match their spellcasting abilities. One of the uses of each skill is to learn spells of the corresponding type, and yet Occultism doesn't seem to follow suit.

• Arcana is INT based and focuses on alchemy and arcane practices. Wizards use Arcane magic (and Alchemists use Alchemy). They're INT based.

• Religion is WIS based and focuses on "deities, dogma, faith, and the realms of divine creatures." Clerics are the primary dogmatic, faith-based, Divine caster. They're WIS based.

• Nature is WIS based and focuses on "animals and magical beasts" and "flora, fauna, geography, weather, the environment, or creatures of natural significance". Druids are the Primal casters with all sorts of animal-, plant-, and nature-based powers. They're WIS based.

• Occultism is INT based and focuses on "ancient mysteries, obscure philosophy, or creatures of occult significance" as well as "complex metaphysical systems, syncretic principles, and incoherent ramblings." Bards are the Occult casters that revolve around mysteries, philosophy, and rambling in their magics. They're CHA based.
  

I get that "knowledges" being INT or WIS based makes more sense and that CHA is more of a stretch, but we're talking about something that literally lists "incoherent ramblings" as part of its knowledge base.

Bard has a class feat that magically unlocks memories to permit Recall Knowledge checks that improves with Occultism. They have another class feat that lets them act as if they're trained in every skill that improves with Occultism. It seems wrong to have such a core skill not match their key ability score.

[PossibleCabbage]

I guess the hangup is that there are probably going to be a number of Int-based classes who cast from the Occult list in future material (like the Psychic or Occultist.)

Like there are tenth level Occult spells, but the bard can't get them, and the sorcerer isn't the signature class for any of the 4 lists.

[Pinstripedbarbarian]

There's nothing saying Psychic or Occultist couldn't be CHA based in 2.0.

Whether the realm of "Occult" stuff in this game is philosophical, illogical, metaphysical, lovecraftian/insanity, conflicting, or whatever else, it's distinct from Arcana because it isn't purely normal, logical, or scientific. It has its own reasoning behind it that only makes sense in its own way. So if you need to have a nuanced way of approaching Occultism rather than the pragmatic method Arcana works, why would you use INT to feel your way through it?

[Xenocrat]

It should stay INT based. Intelligence has few enough uses, and Charisma already has plenty.

[OdanBaere]

The occult spell list is defined by a mental and spiritual essence whereas arcane is mental and material. I think the problem becomes the 3 mental attributes trying to fit 4 spell lists. Either they try to balance 3 attributes into 4 lists or just 2. Or they ignore the essences and leave spell castings primary stat as a class feature and not tied to the spell list.

What combination of mental, material, vital, and spiritual is charisma to you?