Monk Need More Skills! (I meant to put this feedback in my part 1 survey, but forgot so let's do it here!)

[tottreson]

Monks have a strangely low amount of signature skills and skills trained with only the arcane casters having less signature skills than them, and no one having less trained skills than them. (I know wizard/alchemist technically have less, but their primary stats are int so they never actually will unless someone is making a very poor monk.)

For what was once a class that gave above average skills/level and one that focuses on perfecting themselves it's an extremely odd choice to me.

Off-hand, the most glaring thing that I can't fathom is why they don't have Medicine as a signature skill. Eastern Medicine has always been used along with martial artists as a strong trope in movies and literature. Even in as realistic a setting as the original Karate kid, Mr. Miyagi used strange healing techniques to make his student battle ready again. It also plays into their desire for wisdom.

But, that's not the only skill they're missing. Much of their abilities play into the idea of being a ninja, so why wouldn't they have stealth? Their class description even notes how some monks will take up a craft and seek perfection within it, so why not craft as well?

As it stands, they've taken a martial class that previously had great defensive abilities, and could function as a light skill monkey and transformed it into a class with unfortunate low-level AC, and few skills.

[Draco18s]

I think I agree with everything here.

[PossibleCabbage]

As a general rule, I find that 3 +IntMod trained skills at level 1 and 3 signature skills is too few for any class.

Since it basically critical paths characters down "max 2 or 3 of your signature skills, and pick up some other 0-4 trained skills."

Even if monks can be really good at Medicine with expert and high wis or Stealth with expert and high dex, it just is more satisfying to be able to get the highest level at those things you are most interested in doing.

Also it's kind of weird how monks can have their powers be occult but that doesn't swap their signature skill in religion for signature skill in occultism; seems like it should be either/or really.

[Pharazon]

Because of the way skills work now, I don't know if I fully agree about needing to maintain skill monkey type roles since you can do nearly anything untrained with a pretty negligible penalty.

But the idea of maintaining a way to create the various types of Monks that we have seen in the past is something I fully support. I think you could probably accomplish most of what you are looking for by having them adjust the signature skill area to read:

Choose 3 from the following as your signature skills:
-Acrobatics
-Athletics
-Crafting
-Medicine
-Religion
-Stealth

I think early survival may be a concern for the monk as the bonus from expert unarmored defense may not be enough if you build more strength than dex and aren't using crane stance. I'm not sure if the ability to be more mobile will make up for the roughly 3 AC less you will have than a fighter. Our group has it listed as a concern at this point since it looks like every monk would be basically forced in the early levels to prioritize getting bracers of armor. A mandatory item likely indicates something missing from the class so we are dry running encounters this weekend to see how some of the classes feel in comparison to each other before level 10.

[Scythia]

I'm confused as to why they have Religion as a signature skill at all. They aren't monks like Jesuits or Franciscans, they're monks like Xiaolin. They aren't using any divine magic, so the bulk of Religion uses are pointless for them.

[PossibleCabbage]

Scythia wrote:

I'm confused as to why they have Religion as a signature skill at all. They aren't monks like Jesuits or Franciscans, they're monks like Xiaolin. They aren't using any divine magic, so the bulk of Religion uses are pointless for them.

I mean, monks who have ki powers have to choose whether their magic is divine or occult, but even occult-powered monks still have religion as a signature skill.

I honestly feel like Occultism would be a better fit than Religion if one of them has to be signature by default since it's more about esoteric philosophy and less about veneration. Additionally my experience is that PC monks are generally more focused about deeper natural truths and less about "Irori is keen."

[Scythia]

PossibleCabbage wrote:

Scythia wrote:

I'm confused as to why they have Religion as a signature skill at all. They aren't monks like Jesuits or Franciscans, they're monks like Xiaolin. They aren't using any divine magic, so the bulk of Religion uses are pointless for them.

I mean, monks who have ki powers have to choose whether their magic is divine or occult, but even occult-powered monks still have religion as a signature skill.

I honestly feel like Occultism would be a better fit than Religion if one of them has to be signature by default since it's more about esoteric philosophy and less about veneration. Additionally my experience is that PC monks are generally more focused about deeper natural truths and less about "Irori is keen."

Even considering Ki powers it's not as though there's a "Learn a new Ki Power" use for Religion, and Ki Powers can't be used to counter Divine spells so far as I'm aware, so Identifying them is of limited utility. If I were house ruling (which I'm avoiding right now in order to test things as written), I'd simply swap Medicine in place of Religion.