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I'v been going over the skill section and talking with my group about how much secret rolling we are going to do. I noticed that when trying to remain undetected or hiding an object using stealth, making a Forgery using Society or using Deception to lie the rolls are secret.
But not when trying to Steal or Palm and object it the roll is made open.
Why are these not secret as well? The like with the other secret rolls above, the player will notice the observers reacting when he fails his check, but the player can also be lulled into a false sense of security when the observers pretend to ignore it or run along with it.
What was the intention behind this?
I was about to argue against your point based on the PF1 rules, but the PF2 rules are very different. Maybe they changed the main rules text but forgot to edit the keywords?
In PF1 the same argument could also be made. If you want to do sense motive, bluff and stealth in secret, why would you not include sleight of hand in many occasions.
In PF1, the check is used both to accomplish the action and to set the DC for somebody observing it. If you know your roll but not the Perception bonus or roll of anyone who could be observing you, then you know whether you were able to perform the action but have only a vague idea about whether you were seen doing it.
In PF2, the only purpose of these checks is to determine whether you were able to perform them without being observed. The action itself (for palming at least) is always successful.
I imagine because the consequences of being caught trying to steal/hide something are often immediate. As opposed to the situation where you're trying to sneak through several rooms.
If you aren't in immediate danger of being caught, why are you rolling for steal/palm in the first place?
I imagine because the consequences of being caught trying to steal/hide something are often immediate. As opposed to the situation where you're trying to sneak through several rooms.
The effects of being caught in a lie and sneaking around are generally immediate as well.
If you aren't in immediate danger of being caught, why are you rolling for steal/palm in the first place?
Where did I say this? You can make the same case for stealth checks.
What I was talking about is the environment noticing you and then letting you think you got away with it to surprise you later.
If I roll a 1 and the high priest sees me taking the 'sacred scriptures' and does nothing to stop me. I can metagame that these might not be the actual scriptures, or the priest wants me to take it for some reason.
Just like if i was caught in a lie or sneaking and the NPC goes along with it, only to ambush me later when I have exposed myself.
Well if you are going to have any secret rolls then I would think sleight of hand would be one of them. I don't get the logic, but then there has generally been an anti-thief bias in RPG's.