How does unarmored defense proficiency work?


Skills, Feats, Equipment & Spells


The Monk is listed as being given expert proficiency in being unarmored defense, but there is no mention of being trained. Other characters are also not mentioned as being trained in unarmored defense. Do all characters get automatic trained proficiency in unarmored defense?


My guess is that the default is untrained. So the monk's AC while naked is 11 + Dex, everyone else is 8 + Dex

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Knight Magenta wrote:
My guess is that the default is untrained. So the monk's AC while naked is 11 + Dex, everyone else is 8 + Dex

If so, wizards and sorcerers are in even greater trouble than I believed, with no real means to play unarmored efficiently.

I found no feat for them to get unarmored proficiency, but the light armor proficiency feat does exist. I see no penalties for arcane spellcasting while armored (unlike previous editions), so I guess grabbing this feat ASAP and equipping a chain shirt is the way to go for wizards and sorcerers now.

Not sure if this WAI, looks like something to see changes after some playtesting.


p.16: To calculate her AC, add 10 plus her Dexterity
modifier (up to her armor’s Dexterity modifier cap), plus
her proficiency modifier with her armor, plus her armor’s
item bonus to AC and any other bonuses and penalties
that always apply.

Technically you add only proficiency modifiers for armor. Not for unarmored. If unarmored defense was a thing to be taken into account for every class then they would have added that bracket on the character sheet.


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Asuet wrote:

p.16: To calculate her AC, add 10 plus her Dexterity

modifier (up to her armor’s Dexterity modifier cap), plus
her proficiency modifier with her armor, plus her armor’s
item bonus to AC and any other bonuses and penalties
that always apply.

Technically you add only proficiency modifiers for armor. Not for unarmored. If unarmored defense was a thing to be taken into account for every class then they would have added that bracket on the character sheet.

You'd think they would. They didn't. Unless explicitly said that they are proficient in it, they are untrained. Animal companions are trained in unarmored defense. Monks are expert at it. All other classes are unspecified which means they are all untrained.

For example, under unarmed strikes it states that everybody is trained in unarmed strikes. There is no such wording for unarmored defense.


Asuet wrote:
Technically you add only proficiency modifiers for armor. Not for unarmored. If unarmored defense was a thing to be taken into account for every class then they would have added that bracket on the character sheet.

The mage armor spell explicitly uses unarmored proficiency.

Basically Wizards and Sorcerers should just throw on some magical armor because its gonna be superior to not wearing any.


Beefriedrice 2 wrote:
Asuet wrote:
Technically you add only proficiency modifiers for armor. Not for unarmored. If unarmored defense was a thing to be taken into account for every class then they would have added that bracket on the character sheet.

The mage armor spell explicitly uses unarmored proficiency.

Basically Wizards and Sorcerers should just throw on some magical armor because its gonna be superior to not wearing any.

Bracers of armor are still a thing, starting at 35 gp for constant 2nd level mage armor and going up to 65,000 gp for 20th level. Not that Mark Seifter hasn't said he's looking forward to people trying out heavily armored battle mages (now that ASF is gone), but it's not a necessity.


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Fuzzy-Wuzzy wrote:
Beefriedrice 2 wrote:
Asuet wrote:
Technically you add only proficiency modifiers for armor. Not for unarmored. If unarmored defense was a thing to be taken into account for every class then they would have added that bracket on the character sheet.

The mage armor spell explicitly uses unarmored proficiency.

Basically Wizards and Sorcerers should just throw on some magical armor because its gonna be superior to not wearing any.

Bracers of armor are still a thing, starting at 35 gp for constant 2nd level mage armor and going up to 65,000 gp for 20th level. Not that Mark Seifter hasn't said he's looking forward to people trying out heavily armored battle mages (now that ASF is gone), but it's not a necessity.

Are they required to multiclass into monk then?


Asuet wrote:

p.16: To calculate her AC, add 10 plus her Dexterity

modifier (up to her armor’s Dexterity modifier cap), plus
her proficiency modifier with her armor, plus her armor’s
item bonus to AC and any other bonuses and penalties
that always apply.

Technically you add only proficiency modifiers for armor. Not for unarmored. If unarmored defense was a thing to be taken into account for every class then they would have added that bracket on the character sheet.

If you didn't add any proficiency bonus at all, you wouldn't get +level to AC unless you were wearing armor, which is a while lot worse than being untrained.


Fuzzy-Wuzzy wrote:
Beefriedrice 2 wrote:
Asuet wrote:
Technically you add only proficiency modifiers for armor. Not for unarmored. If unarmored defense was a thing to be taken into account for every class then they would have added that bracket on the character sheet.

The mage armor spell explicitly uses unarmored proficiency.

Basically Wizards and Sorcerers should just throw on some magical armor because its gonna be superior to not wearing any.

Bracers of armor are still a thing, starting at 35 gp for constant 2nd level mage armor and going up to 65,000 gp for 20th level. Not that Mark Seifter hasn't said he's looking forward to people trying out heavily armored battle mages (now that ASF is gone), but it's not a necessity.

It is if you're untrained in unarmored defense. You're better off grabbing light armor training and using that, especially if you're not worried about dex.


Texas Snyper wrote:
Asuet wrote:

p.16: To calculate her AC, add 10 plus her Dexterity

modifier (up to her armor’s Dexterity modifier cap), plus
her proficiency modifier with her armor, plus her armor’s
item bonus to AC and any other bonuses and penalties
that always apply.

Technically you add only proficiency modifiers for armor. Not for unarmored. If unarmored defense was a thing to be taken into account for every class then they would have added that bracket on the character sheet.

You'd think they would. They didn't. Unless explicitly said that they are proficient in it, they are untrained. Animal companions are trained in unarmored defense. Monks are expert at it. All other classes are unspecified which means they are all untrained.

For example, under unarmed strikes it states that everybody is trained in unarmed strikes. There is no such wording for unarmored defense.

Unless I hear from Paizo otherwise, I'm going to assume they intended for everyone to start as trained in unarmored defense. It makes the most logical sense.


There's a reddit claim that the developers said at a GenCon panel that everyone is intended to be trained in unarmored. Expect clarification this week.


Xenocrat wrote:
There's a reddit claim that the developers said at a GenCon panel that everyone is intended to be trained in unarmored. Expect clarification this week.

Thanks! It would seem to mirror that everyone is trained in unarmed fighting.

Grand Lodge

That would jibe with Ezran's character sheet.

http://www.enworld.org/forum/content.php?5427-Pathfinder-2-Character-Sheet- 6-Ezren-Human-Wizard

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