Kobold Paladin! Koboldin! Advice Needed! Exclamation Marks!


Advice


Hi everyone, so I'd really like to play a Kobold Paladin, having written a background for him concerning a righteous crusade for the last dragon egg related to his clan. However I have never played a Paladin before, and really don't know where to start. If anyone could give me some good ideas on how to build this paladin - ability scores, possible archetype etc - it would be really great! thanks for your time!


Kobolds make weak paladins, but I have a few ideas to compensate for this. You are going to need a high CHA for your class abilities, a decent CON for HP, and DEX for damage. Take either the dervish dance or slashing grace feat chains for DEX to damage. You can get by with a 10 or lower in WIS and INT. Toughness can help compensate for the Kobolds racial penalty to CON.


One fun archetype for a Dex-based kobold paladin is the virtuous bravo, giving you Weapon Finesse for free plus a bunch of defensive abilities to make up for your Con penalty. You could get Fencing Grace by 3rd level, or if you really want to go crazy you could take the Tail Terror feat and then Slashing Grace with a long lash kobold tail attachment for a lovely finessable reach weapon. Slow to get going, but once you grab Combat Reflexes and start dishing out loads of attacks of opportunity with Dex-to-damage, precise strike, and smite, you'll truly be a terror to behold.


Seconding Avoron: definitely go the VIrtuous Bravo route. I disagree with the tail-attachment thing, however, as paladins gain a lot from crit-fishing their massive numeric bonuses to damage (and the tail gismo is only a 20/x2), and the VB's Precise Strike eventually becomes a HUGE pile begging multiplication. --The weapon you really want is the Waveblade, which is a piercing 18-20/x2 that a cracked opalescent white pyramid ioun (cheap at 1500gp) will grant you martial proficiency in without a single feat being spent for purposes of activating VB's Bravo’s Finesse or qualifying for Piranha Strike.
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"Challenge Mode" Virtuoso Bravo Kobold (20pt-buy)

Concept: You are the weakest thing out adventuring, and overcome that limitation.

Str- 3
Dex+ 17 (bump 4th)
Con- 10
Int: 14 (15,14,14,14,12,7 20pt array)
wis: 14
cha: 14 (bump 8th, 12th, etc)

Traits: Gravelwalker, Dangerously Curious

01 Fey Foundling
03 Piranha Strike
05 Mounted Combat
07 Greater Mercy
09 Improved Critical (Waveblade)

Equipment: Muleback Cords, Waveblade, Exotic Military Saddle (depending on mount), Snapleaf, variety of utility scrolls and cheap wands including Mage Armor, Belt of Incredible Dexterity, Circlet of Persuasion, locking gauntlet

* Gravelwalker lets you ignore difficult terrain
* Fey Foundling and Greater Mercy used w/LoH take the sting out of the Con penalty
* Until 1500 for the OWP ioun (permitting waveblade), just use a non-light ordinary rapier.
* Buy a second OWP ioun for Heavy Repeating Crossbow at 6th.
* 500gp Muleback Cords grant carrying capacity equivalent to 11 strength
* +5 to all saves as soon as Circlet of Persuasion acquired

Other note: don't worry about maximizing charisma right away; attend to your defenses first. (This is where the Circlet of Persuasion is clearly better than a less-than-+6 Headband; use Panache sparingly and mainly to negate hits.)

Aside from Quilted Cloth, don't spend a penny on basic AC until Celestial Armor. (UMD your Mage Armor wand instead. Get at least two of them so you have a spare when rolling a 1 to activate.)

Skills (4/level): Acrobatics, Ride, Use Magic Device, (miscellaneous points into Diplomacy, Intimidate, Handle Animal, Swim, etc.)


This might be one of the few cases a Dragadin makes sense. I'm thinking Paladin 2 / Oracle 4 / Dragon Disciple 10
You can change the Paladin/Oracle levels around to Paladin 4 / Oracle 1 for more BAB and d10s. Dragadins probably make weak Oradins anyways. Starting from first, I think Paladin 2 / Oracle 3 / Dragon Disciple 2 would be best.

You're going to need Scaled Disciple and Small But Deadly to make this work. Scaled Disciple will allow to qualify for Dragon Disciple using your Oracle levels and Small But Deadly negates your str penalty (There is debate whether this means any penalty or the racial penalty). This allows you to make a Str based Kobold who can call himself a Paladin and dragon worshipper.


Thunderlord wrote:

This might be one of the few cases a Dragadin makes sense. I'm thinking Paladin 2 / Oracle 4 / Dragon Disciple 10

You can change the Paladin/Oracle levels around to Paladin 4 / Oracle 1 for more BAB and d10s. Dragadins probably make weak Oradins anyways. Starting from first, I think Paladin 2 / Oracle 3 / Dragon Disciple 2 would be best.

You're going to need Scaled Disciple and Small But Deadly to make this work. Scaled Disciple will allow to qualify for Dragon Disciple using your Oracle levels and Small But Deadly negates your str penalty (There is debate whether this means any penalty or the racial penalty). This allows you to make a Str based Kobold who can call himself a Paladin and dragon worshipper.

The Pearl Seeker casts spontaneously so it'd be possible to rule out Oracle all together and single class into Dragon Disciple. As Pearl Seeker is underwhelming this option could be ignored but the idea is the same. Any archetype that allows spontaneous casting could do it but so far I've only found Pearl Seeker.


I only came to this thread to salute the OP for the title. I giggled mightily.


Cool build, Slim Jim! I do see a few issues though.

Slim Jim wrote:
the VB's Precise Strike eventually becomes a HUGE pile begging multiplication

Precise strike is precision damage, and isn't multiplied on a critical hit.

Slim Jim wrote:
The weapon you really want is the Waveblade, which is a piercing 18-20/x2

I don't see the agile enchantment anywhere on your equipment list - until you get that on your waveblade, you'll be taking a -4 penalty on every single damage roll.

Slim Jim wrote:
* +5 to all saves as soon as Circlet of Persuasion acquired

Not how it works - since Cha adds to your other stat instead of replacing it, it still doesn't count as a Charisma-based check. There's an FAQ.

Also, why on earth would you put more points into Int and Wis than Con?


Silver Champion Paladin might be something you’d want to look into. I know Drake companion archetypes are awful, but still.


Avoron wrote:
Cool build, Slim Jim! I do see a few issues though.
I whipped it up on-the-spot, so there's bound to be a few.
Quote:
Slim Jim wrote:
the VB's Precise Strike eventually becomes a HUGE pile begging multiplication
Precise strike is precision damage, and isn't multiplied on a critical hit.
Feh. (I hate it when Paizo makes numeric damage non-multipliable. It messes with the general rule of things, crit-wise.)
Quote:
Slim Jim wrote:
The weapon you really want is the Waveblade, which is a piercing 18-20/x2
I don't see the agile enchantment anywhere on your equipment list - until you get that on your waveblade, you'll be taking a -4 penalty on every single damage roll.

That's going to happen no matter what you do in a Kobold paladin because you're only going to have two feats prior to 5th level. The best you can do is suck it up at the baby levels plinking with a crossbow.

An Agile weapon will obviously be necessary for a build like this that isn't an unchained rogue or with some other gimmick going on that doesn't require hosing two or more feats to gain dex>dmg, or basically 3rd at earliest with 100% feat devotion.

Option: take the Dragonmaw alternative racial trait, and buy a 4000gp Agile AoMF and just bite things until you have enough money for the OWP and +1/Agile waveblade. (This will cost you your AC+1 natural armor racial bonus, as well as eat the item slot a natural armor amulet would go in.). Upon acquiring an Agile waveblade, use the Ultimate Campaign retraining rules (PFS legal, btw, if that's a concern) to get rid of the racial trait, and sell the AoMF for half-price and pick up an AoNA. --Whether or not this is more or less practical than taking the tail stuff and then retraining out (upon agile waveblade) depends upon on the cash richness or your campaign. Ditto just starting the character as a uRogue3,4,?, then rapidly retraining the class levels to VB paladin after getting the cherry gear.

No matter how you do it, the extended threat range of the waveblade makes it well worth perusing.

Quote:
Slim Jim wrote:
* +5 to all saves as soon as Circlet of Persuasion acquired
Not how it works - since Cha adds to your other stat instead of replacing it, it still doesn't count as a Charisma-based check. There's an FAQ.
They got around to fixing that? ....good. Because that stupid thing was broke.
Quote:
Also, why on earth would you put more points into Int and Wis than Con?

A paladin with Fey Foundling and Greater Mercy can really soak up the damage. But go ahead and switch Wis and Con (ending up with a 12 in each after racial adjustment); it's not like you're going to drop a single skill point into Perception anyway (because that is something paladins should never waste their time on unless they're halfling rogue multiclasses). 14 in Int: if you UMD and have a bonded mount requiring Ride, you'll need the extra skillpoints. (You're also Int-qualified for Combat Expertise, should that ever be needed to build a feat-chain later on.)

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