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What made Conan the unbelievably successful character he is today? A quick Wiki search would get you:
Conan the Barbarian may also refer to:
- Conan the Barbarian's fictional universe, see Hyborian Age
- Conan the Barbarian (1955 collection), a 1955 collection of stories about the character published by Gnome Press
- Conan the Barbarian (comics), 1970s Marvel comic series
- Conan the Barbarian (1982 film), a film starring Arnold Schwarzenegger
- Conan the Barbarian (2011 film), a film starring Jason Momoa
- Conan the Barbarian (2011 collection), a collection of stories about the character published by Ballantine Books
- Conan the Barbarian (2012-2014), an ongoing comics series from Dark Horse Comics by Brian Wood
But what makes the character so enduring? I’m going to start with:
- Gritty Action
- Hawt Chicks (See my note below)
- A well thought out setting
- L. Sprague de Camp’s taking over the Conan character after Howard’s suicide kept the character in print.
Also, many of these female characters were far more competent then was typical of the era (the early 1930s).
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A protagonist who lets the reader live out fantasies of being a total badass- Conan is an absolute beast in the arena of physical action, and also has some scruples he adheres to.
A hero who isn't constrained by any sort of reluctance to use the most practical means available to solve his problems (which are also refreshingly black-and-white most of the time, as compared to the nuances of real life)
Grit without risk- our hero always emerges victorious from the bloody scrums he gets into, outwits his nefarious scheming foes, outlasts the unholy sorcery used against him...
Plenty of sex appeal (too much for my tastes, really- I vastly prefer tales like "The Tower of the Elephant" or "The Phoenix on the Sword" which feature far less bodice-ripping)
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His years writing for the Simpsons produced the some of the best episodes the series has to offer...
Oh yeah... and unlike, say, Solomon Kane or Bran Mak Morn, since he doesn't tie into any actual world history, Conan is free to explore a world exactly as much like ours as it has to be...
Plenty of sex appeal (too much for my tastes, really- I vastly prefer tales like "The Tower of the Elephant" or "The Phoenix on the Sword" which feature far less bodice-ripping)
As I note above, the "sex appeal" was really about money. And the pastiche writers simply continued it (again "money").
I never understood why Conan was given a Chaotic Evil alignment in the 1e "Deities and Demigods" book. I always figured him for a true neutral.
I never understood why Conan was given a Chaotic Evil alignment in the 1e "Deities and Demigods" book. I always figured him for a true neutral.
What Deities and Demigods are you referring to? I have the 1980 version that got TSR into so much trouble with Chaosium. I thought that was the first one.
I don't think that the Hyborian mythos was ever in Deities and Demigods.
It didn't. DMCal is referring to Elric of Melnibone methinks.
It didn't. DMCal is referring to Elric of Melnibone methinks.
Elric of Melniboné is rightly classified as Chaotic Evil, just less so then most of his race.
I do remember that one or more write-ups for Conan did appear in Dragon, but I don't remember what alignment they gave him.
I do know that in the Conan AD&D adventures, TSR ignored alignment.
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I never understood why Conan was given a Chaotic Evil alignment in the 1e "Deities and Demigods" book. I always figured him for a true neutral.What Deities and Demigods are you referring to? I have the 1980 version that got TSR into so much trouble with Chaosium. I thought that was the first one.
I don't think that the Hyborian mythos was ever in Deities and Demigods.
I have that edition, too. I paid $10 for it and a stack of 1e modules to a guy who had no idea what he had. It's still in mint condition.
It didn't. DMCal is referring to Elric of Melnibone methinks.
I realized upon reading the replies that I was mistaken and it appeared in an issue of Dragon Magazine, though which issue escapes me at the moment. Sorry for the mix up!
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While I expect I'm far less knowledgeable on the subject than some of the other posters on this thread, I have to give my view on the reasons Conan is so great: Roy Thomas, Roy Thomas, and Roy Thomas. And also Roy Thomas.
I've never seen anyone else make the Hyborian Age seem so real, or make Conan into such a fascinating hero, or put together such a well-crafted story as some of those of Thomas, or fit those stories so neatly into continuity.
Now and then, I get some more reprints or back issues of the Roy Thomas stuff. On rarer occasions, I check out some other authors. (Recently, for instance, I happened to read some review on amazon.com that mentioned that some of the Dixon / Kwapisz stories in Savage Sword surpassed those of Thomas. I'll have to check some of them out one day, but I've been disappointed before...)
Okay! I've read a lot of Conan comics by Michael Fleischer, Jim Owsley, Kurt Busiek, and others, and those guys can't hold a candle to Roy Thomas. I mentioned in my previous post that I would check out the Charles Dixon / Gary Kwapisz stuff. I've done that now, by ordering 3 issues of Savage Sword from mycomicshop.com - issues 135, 165, and 170, to be specific.
And issue 135 surprised me! The dialogue seldom made me wince, and not much when I did. (Conan's mutterings about Crom weren't quite right, for instance.) Issue 135 even fit well into a clear, recognizable chapter of Conan's life! I was all ready to nominate my SECOND favorite Conan writer, and I started typing this message to that effect.
But then I read 165 and 170, which had no magic and no monsters (because that brief glimpse of a giant seal doesn't count). Those issues contributed nothing to the Conan epic. Red Sonja and Valeria were shoehorned in, and their personalities were wrong. Those stories were simply unconvincing.
<sigh> Well, I heard that the "Young Conan" saga by Michael Higgins (from Conan the Barbarian #232-240) was OK. I just ordered that through Amazon. The quest continues...
But nothing holds a candle to the original Howard stories. For stories from the 30s, those hold up really well.
Yeah, I know many fans love them, and some of those fans would ridicule me for not loving those stories. But I've ranted against the Howard stories before on these boards, like here for instance.
You know, I never thought of it that way before. I keep complaining - and for that matter Roy Thomas commented - that continuity wasn't a big concern for other writers (like Michael Fleischer and such). But then, it wasn't a big concern for REH either. Hah!
I'd actually love to see a relatively faithful movie of that first story (Phoenix on the Sword).How faithful is "relatively faithful"? One major shortcoming of "The Phoenix on the Sword" was the absence of female characters. If a major Conan movie comes out without a beautiful woman, I'll eat my hat.
I know there was talk of Arnie in King Conan movie, but I don't know if there was any more link to it than that.
I'm guessing you know this already, but just in case, I'll mention that Conan was supposed to gain his crown in Conan the Conqueror, but Schwarzenegger refused to reprise the role for it. So the script got rewritten as Kull the Conqueror ; enter Kevin Sorbo.
I wish that were true. Then when I searched library catalogs for Conan stuff, I wouldn't be inundated with references to Arthur Conan Doyle. And of course, there's Conan O'Brien. How many characters do you know named Kull? Bran Mak Morn? How about Fafhrd and the Gray Mouser? Their names are far more distinctive, but how much does the mainstream population know about them?
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I feel like Conan was popular around 10-20 years ago, but lately the only Conan works to significantly make an impact in pop culture was a couple of largely forgettable games (that only made a splash due to the nudity), and a critical and box office failure in the form of a 2011 movie (it only made roughly half its budget in the box office).
I think Conan as a character and a narrative is very dated and out of touch with modern generations, and will never again approach the peak that it hit in the 90s.
Though it does have a legacy in the influence it had on other media (though some of that legacy is actually bad, like the chain mail bikinis and sexism it was rife with, but we do have it to thank for the modern fantasy barbarian archetype)
But what makes the character so enduring? I’m going to start with:
But what else added to the continuing value of the character
- Gritty Action
- Hawt Chicks (See my note below)
- A well thought out setting
- L. Sprague de Camp’s taking over the Conan character after Howard’s suicide kept the character in print.
** spoiler omitted **
with an orchestra of speed and death. The reason this is not mentioned more often
is his typical reader has never studied Napoleon's system of war for themselves
and is thus unable to recognize it. Obviously L. Sprague de Camp, a well read man, did.
But what makes the character so enduring? I’m going to start with:
But what else added to the continuing value of the character
- Gritty Action
- Hawt Chicks (See my note below)
- A well thought out setting
- L. Sprague de Camp’s taking over the Conan character after Howard’s suicide kept the character in print.
** spoiler omitted **
Conan's tactics are Napoleonic and as a result capture a reader's imagination
with an orchestra of speed and death. The reason this is not mentioned more often
is his typical reader has never studied Napoleon's system of war for themselves
and is thus unable to recognize it. Obviously L. Sprague de Camp, a well read man, did.
John Wick is a recent incarnation of Conan -- without the chainmail bikini Trope.
Edit: that circle club scene is similar to the scene in Conan (1982) when he infiltrates the palace orgy
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His universal ability to look good in Chain Mail or a Pimp Suit with Jaguar?
So you are alive.
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Conan #3 comes out soon, I mean John Wick 3.
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<sigh> Well, I heard that the "Young Conan" saga by Michael Higgins (from Conan the Barbarian #232-240) was OK. I just ordered that through Amazon. The quest continues...
<sigh again>
The "Young Conan" saga got lost in the mail. Almost a year later, I finally got around to ordering another copy. Last week, I finally read it, so now I can finally give it a "thumbs down" with authority. Never mind the contradictions (which Roy Thomas pointed out at the end and explained by saying that Conan told wildly different accounts of his life). It just didn't jive with the feel of the Conan saga. And when reading it, I didn't care about the plot nor the characters.
So that's it. I'm going back to the Master; I just ordered some more of the old Roy Thomas material from Mile High. And maybe one of these days I'll take "Road of Kings" out of the library. Roy Thomas wrote that for Dark Horse in 2010. I heard it wasn't that great, but it might be interesting to find out how RT wrote (relatively) recently.
Isn't 'Road of Kings' a Karl Wagner novel as well?
Yeah, but the Roy Thomas story is not an adaptation of the Wagner novel.
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In case anyone might be interested, I'll mention that I read Roy Thomas' "The Road of Kings" and "Throne of Aquilonia" a couple of weeks ago, so now I can say that even in 2010-2011, Thomas still had it! He could still write Conan better than anyone else; I don't care what any reviewer said to the contrary.
And I'm glad I read the Dark Horse version of "Iron Shadows of the Moon". (Some writers can at least adapt REH stories well to the comics, even if few can approach Roy Thomas with their ORIGINAL Conan stories.) By reading "Iron Shadows" first, I could appreciate how seamlessly and cleverly Thomas stitched his own stories to the preceding "Iron Shadows" and the succeeding "Queen of the Black Coast". Thomas had no trouble writing for Dark Horse's continuity at all, even though it differed from his own. And Thomas' issues came up with a slight but interesting twist on the usual cliched storyline; you'd think after all these decades, writers would run out of twists!