Packmaster Hunter wording


Rules Questions


The feature Pack bond does say it removes animal companion. So how are you getting one?

Can both companions use skirmisher tricks?


Pack Bond it's self grants the hunter a animal companion. To be fair, it probably should state that this class feature modifies animal companion instead of replacing it.

As for skirmisher tricks, if you're referring to the Hunter's Tricks class feature that the skirmisher gets. I don't see any reason why your animal companions wouldn't be eligible as normal. However, you would have to pick which companion benefits from the trick you're using.

The Packmaster's class ability Teamwork feats, only applies to the precise companion, woodland stride, and teamwork feats class features.


Instead of the Animal Companion ability, they get the Pack Bond ability, which gives multiple Companions as described.

It appears to me that a Packmaster's companions are stuck with the standard tricks, since they don't have anything that says they can take skirmisher tricks.


Dave Justus wrote:

Instead of the Animal Companion ability, they get the Pack Bond ability, which gives multiple Companions as described.

It appears to me that a Packmaster's companions are stuck with the standard tricks, since they don't have anything that says they can take skirmisher tricks.

I'm not sure about that. The RAW version of the ability fails to specify how the hunter's "effective druid level" is determined or even what animals are allowed as animal companions. All of the text that specifies those details are part of the "animal companion" ability which this one has replaced. That same text is where it specifies that a hunter can teach their animal companions skirmisher tricks if they have that archetype.

Also, it's not like there are universal animal companion rules regarding what your "effective druid level" is. Your "effective druid level" depends heavily on how you got the animal companion, oracles, rangers, and cavaliers all treat them differently and the feat animal ally is different still. Since it's a hunter archetype we're looking at, it makes sense that the animal companion text regarding hunter animal companions is the appropriate set of rules to use. Which just happens to include the bit about skirmisher tricks.


I don't deny that it could have been written clearer. Including the things you mention.

However, it does clearly indicate that it gets an animal companion, and while others classes give Animal Companions, the baseline default is clearly the Druid animal companion, and when not stated otherwise, all of the class levels of a class that grants that feature are considered class levels for that feature.

I'll grant you that it might have been intended that the multiple companions can have skirmisher tricks, and I don't think it would be broken to allow it and I probably would as a GM.


On a side note, how often can an animal companion use the skirmisher tricks?

"The animal companion can use skirmisher tricks when commanded, a number of times per day equal to half its Hit Dice plus its Wisdom modifier"

Is that each skirmisher trick or total?


Total. Best to pick 1 maybe 2 at most


LordKailas wrote:
Dave Justus wrote:

Instead of the Animal Companion ability, they get the Pack Bond ability, which gives multiple Companions as described.

It appears to me that a Packmaster's companions are stuck with the standard tricks, since they don't have anything that says they can take skirmisher tricks.

I'm not sure about that. The RAW version of the ability fails to specify how the hunter's "effective druid level" is determined or even what animals are allowed as animal companions. All of the text that specifies those details are part of the "animal companion" ability which this one has replaced. That same text is where it specifies that a hunter can teach their animal companions skirmisher tricks if they have that archetype.

Also, it's not like there are universal animal companion rules regarding what your "effective druid level" is. Your "effective druid level" depends heavily on how you got the animal companion, oracles, rangers, and cavaliers all treat them differently and the feat animal ally is different still. Since it's a hunter archetype we're looking at, it makes sense that the animal companion text regarding hunter animal companions is the appropriate set of rules to use. Which just happens to include the bit about skirmisher tricks.

The ability replaced is animal companion which says you can use skirmisher tricks, the ability says druid companion whichbdont get it.

I'd say given the archetype does little more than give rather than lose, it more "makes sense" the ability it strictly says it replaces is now null and void, just like any other archetype that replaces rather than modifies.


Cavall wrote:


The ability replaced is animal companion which says you can use skirmisher tricks, the ability says druid companion whichbdont get it.

I'd say given the archetype does little more than give rather than lose, it more "makes sense" the ability it strictly says it replaces is now null and void, just like any other archetype that replaces rather than modifies.

So, if its null and void answer these questions and explain where its stated.

What is your "effective druid level based on?"

Does that effective level stack with levels from other classes that grant an animal companion?

What animals can be selected?

How long does it take to replace it if it dies?

Can it be replaced if it dies, or do you have to wait until you gain a new level to redistribute those levels?


See druid animal companions for these answers. Which doesn't include the ability to use skirmisher tricks.


The section on druid animal campanions provides no answers to these questions and there is no druid class ability called animal companion.

To what are you referencing?


I can't help you of you're being this obtuse on purpose. Good bye and good luck


Cavall wrote:
I can't help you of you're being this obtuse on purpose.

ditto

but, I will try.

The druid feature Nature Bond, gives answers to these questions with regard to druids. Hunters however do not get nature bond and so it makes little sense to believe that I should be looking for the answers to these questions under a different class, with a different ability.

There is a section on animal companions which can be found under the druid class description. Which addresses the details that apply to all animal companions. However, the above questions are always addressed by the specific class that grants the animal companion ability. Not only that, but some of those can be wildly different depending on the class and/or archetype.

The effective druid level for a beastmaster ranger for example changes from being ranger level-3 to being equal to the ranger's level once they hit level 12.

So, it's not like the answers to the above questions are always the same and so I can't just grab any random class or class feature that grants an animal companion to answer said questions.

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