I'm making a gun mage and trying for out different attack patterns for the character so far I got.
Fire guns, as full attack.
Sacrifice any level spell and get +spell level enchantment, or giving defending, distance, flaming, flaming burst, frost, ghost touch, icy burst, thundering. vicious or wounding for spell level/per min
Expand 1 point and get +2 enchantment, or flaming, flaming burst, frost, icy burst,distance,nimble shot, returning,shock, shocking burst, or speed
cast a spell. While doing so, if the spell is a ranged touch, cone, line, or ray spell, fire it through the firearm which applies the gun's enhancement bonus to the spell's attack roll or to its DC but your gun can explode on you.
Also if the spell is ranged touch , you may choose to fire it through spellstrike. Doing so allows you to make a normal attack with your firearm applying firearm damage, but also applying the effects of the spell if it hits. It is probably possible to combine these two methods, but with the risk that you gun can explode.
Using spell combat. Doing a full-round action, allows you to cast a spell as well as make a normal attack with your gun.
I think there might be a way to full round attack and while still casting a spell
Have I missed any synergies, rotations or tactics.
Male Human Spellslinger 1/Trench Fighter 4/Eldritch Archer 5
Init +7; Senses constant deathwatcher; Perception +12
Defense
AC 19, touch 15, flat-footed 14 (5 Dex,4 armor)
hp 54;
Fort 8, Ref 7, Will 9
Offense
Spd 30ft.
Melee B +12/12/10/7/5 (1d6+6)
Ranged P +2/12/10/7/5 (1d8+6)
Special Attacks Arcane Gun, Mage Bullet, Ranged Spell Combat, Ranged Spell Strike
Spells Prepared
2nd—Acid Arrow, Scroching Ray, Flurry Snowballs
1st—Snowball, Mudball, Burning Hands, Mage Armor, Blur, Windy Escape
Prohibited Schools necromancy, divination, abjuration, enchantment
Tactics
Before Combat Mage Armor.
During Combat ?.
Statistics
Str 7, Dex 20, Con 10, Int 22, Wis 14, Cha 14
Base Atk +7/2; CMB +6; CMD 21
Feats Precise Shot, Point Blank Shot, Weapon Focus(Pistol), Empty Quiver Style, Two Weapon Fighting, Rapid Shot, Stabbing Shot, Empty Quiver Flexibility, Improved Two Weapon Fighting, Empty Quiver Flurry
Gear X2 Shadowshooting Reliable Pistol; Headband of Vast Int, Deathwatch eyes, Endless bandolier Gloves of Storing, 200 enchanted bullets
Special Abilities
Spell Recall(Su)
Ranged Spell Strike(Su)
Ranged Spell Combat(Ex)
Arcane Gun(Su)
Mage Bullets(Su)
Arcane Pool(Su)
Ranged Weapon Bond(Ex)
Arcane Accuracy(Su)
Personally I think you're better off continuing as a Spellslinger and going for Eldritch Knight if you're already taking Trench Fighter, since it will take a very long time for Magus spellcasting to catch up after so much multiclassing. At the 10th level, for instance, a Trench Fighter 3 / Spellslinger 5 / Eldritch Knight has access to 4th level spells. While you lose out on spellstrike and spell combat, you get access to higher level spells (which also means better damage from mage bullets). Your approach here should still work, it's just going to be very slow to get its spellcasting abilities rolling.
Jaei wrote: While doing so, if the spell is a ranged touch, cone, line, or ray spell, fire it through the firearm which applies the gun's enhancement bonus to the spell's attack roll or to its DC but your gun can explode on you.
Also if the spell is ranged touch , you may choose to fire it through spellstrike. Doing so allows you to make a normal attack with your firearm applying firearm damage, but also applying the effects of the spell if it hits. It is probably possible to combine these two methods, but with the risk that you gun can explode.
The risk of overload is not worth it. Just use spell combat and spellstrike instead. The Mage Bullets class feature is the main attraction of the Spellslinger to a build like this.
Jaei wrote: Male Human Spellslinger 1/Trench Fighter 4/Eldritch Archer 5 I'm not sure why you're taking the 4th level of Trench Fighter. It's definitely not worth slowing down your spellcasting progression.
Jaei wrote: Str 7, Dex 20, Con 10, Int 22, Wis 14, Cha 14 That Dex score looks low for a build like this at 10th level. You really should have a +4 belt of dexterity by this point, and both your racial bonus and your level-up bonuses should be going to dexterity, so I'd expect to see more around 24. I'd suggest lowering your intelligence to transfer more resouces to increasing your dexterity. You don't need an intelligence quite that high on a build like this anyways, since most of the spells you'll be using don't call for saving throws anyways.
I'm also cautious about a strength score of 7. That leaves you with a light load maximum of 23 lbs. The two pistols weigh 4 lbs each, the bandolier weights 2 lbs, the headband weights 1 lbs, and you will definitely want a magical belt and handy haversack sooner rather than later so that's another 6 lbs. That leaves you with only 7 lbs of capacity for other items, which is very limited room. You will end up carrying a lot more than what you put on your character sheet initially, so it's always worthwhile to have some wiggle room on carrying capacity.
14 charisma looks a bit high, and doesn't appear to be doing anything for you.
Jaei wrote: Feats Precise Shot, Point Blank Shot, Weapon Focus(Pistol), Empty Quiver Style, Two Weapon Fighting, Rapid Shot, Stabbing Shot, Empty Quiver Flexibility, Improved Two Weapon Fighting, Empty Quiver Flurry Two Weapon Fighting doesn't work with spell combat, even with the assistance of your glove of storing. You will not be able to make use of this fighting style with the magus spell combat, so you'll need to pick one or the other to focus on and abandon the other.
I'd also point out that you have no way of reloading the firearm held in the same hand as your glove of storing, which is a problem.
Dasrak wrote: I'd also point out that you have no way of reloading the firearm held in the same hand as your glove of storing, which is a problem.
Shadowshooting enchantment on the weapon should take care of reloading
Jaei wrote: Shadowshooting enchantment on the weapon should take care of reloading Your inventory contains 200 enchanted bullets of some description, so I'm presuming you do intend on using standard reloading actions at least fairly regularly. Is that ammunition a mistake, or are you using it in some weird way that doesn't require you to actually reload?
Oh, and while I'm here, I highly recommend the Jury Rig spell on builds like this. Great for dealing with misfires.
Dasrak wrote: Jaei wrote: Shadowshooting enchantment on the weapon should take care of reloading Your inventory contains 200 enchanted bullets of some description, so I'm presuming you do intend on using standard reloading actions at least fairly regularly. Is that ammunition a mistake, or are you using it in some weird way that doesn't require you to actually reload?
There are fire/lighting/acid, bullets adamantine, silver, pitted for dealing with different types of resistances. Using reloading hands spell to load one bullet a turn if needed.
Get a single gun to use, not two pistols. You want to burn limited resources each fight to raise the damage from bullets. Preferably you'd burn 1 spell and 1 arcane point to give yourself a bunch of 1d6 elemental attributes that stack up to something big. Like flame, shock and frost. If you have two pistols that means double the resources spent for 1 extra shot at -2 to every one of your attacks. Also it would take you 4 swift actions instead of the 2 you use for 1 weapon.
Also a musket or riffle will have a better range increment and base damage. That is a win all the way around.
You really don't need int for this build. Seriously bring it down to 14 (and get a headband later) and use the extra points to bring up your strength to 10 and con as high as you can. You'll need some strength for armor and the con is self evident, right?
Also ditch those gloves. Pick up one more level of fighter and Hands of Dueling. That is an extra +3 to hit and damage with weapon training 1 +2 for gloves.
Also plan on picking up a way to double your crit range. You'll be shooting so much it will add up.
Meirril wrote: Get a single gun to use, not two pistols. You want to burn limited resources each fight to raise the damage from bullets. Preferably you'd burn 1 spell and 1 arcane point to give yourself a bunch of 1d6 elemental attributes that stack up to something big. Like flame, shock and frost. If you have two pistols that means double the resources spent for 1 extra shot at -2 to every one of your attacks. Also it would take you 4 swift actions instead of the 2 you use for 1 weapon.
Also a musket or riffle will have a better range increment and base damage. That is a win all the way around.
Using two pistols would allow you taking really cash in those extra d6's from flaming, etc from arcane pool and spell slots. At base minimum with two pistols (5d8+30) a round add flaming to both weapons you have (5d8+5d6+30) 1st level spellslot & 1 arcane point would last you 1min of combat. That doesn't factor in spike damage from spells like scorching ray (8d6[SR]+5d6[AG/AP] +5d8+30)=98dpr. Where as with a rifle base minimum is (3d10+18) with one point from Arcane Pool and 1st level spell slot your at (3d10+3d6+18) and spike at (8d6[SR]+3d6[AG/AP]+3d10+18)=73dpr
Meirril wrote:
You really don't need int for this build. Seriously bring it down to 14 (and get a headband later) and use the extra points to bring up your strength to 10 and con as high as you can. You'll need some strength for armor and the con is self evident, right?
your right about INT, I intend for the the build to be some mix between hand and close range gun kata user (within 20ft) to take advatage of PBS and attacking touch AC. Staying withing 30 and 20 feet is really dangerous so i wanted options to mitigate the risk some. Thats why I took the gunfu like feats: empty quiver style, stabbing shot, empty quiver flexibility, empty quiver flurry show that way you could shot, pistol whip and push people away from you all a part of your full round attack action. Dasrak is right I sacrafice 5th level spells if i went full spell slinger, 4th level spells if I went full eldritch archer. I also risk OVERLOAD from spellslinger arcane gun however I get access to cone, ray, and line spells 15 levels earlier.
Meirril wrote:
Also ditch those gloves. Pick up one more level of fighter and Hands of Dueling. That is an extra +3 to hit and damage with weapon training 1 +2 for gloves.
Good advice, I orginally took the gloves of storing to help load special ammunition if needed however weapon training and gloves of dueling will be consist damage.
Meirril wrote:
Also plan on picking up a way to double your crit range. You'll be shooting so much it will add up.
I thought about taking Improved Critical at later levels
Jaei wrote:
Using two pistols would allow you taking really cash in those extra d6's from flaming, etc from arcane pool and spell slots. At base minimum with two pistols (5d8+30) a round add flaming to both weapons you have (5d8+5d6+30) 1st level spellslot & 1 arcane point would last you 1min of combat. That doesn't factor in spike damage from spells like scorching ray (8d6[SR]+5d6[AG/AP] +5d8+30)=98dpr. Where as with a rifle base minimum is (3d10+18) with one point from Arcane Pool and 1st level spell slot your at (3d10+3d6+18) and spike at (8d6[SR]+3d6[AG/AP]+3d10+18)=73dpr
Walk me through the damage, because I just don't see it. Step by step, don't just sum it up.
From my calculations The musket would be: base 1d12+5(dex)+1(minimum enchantment). To pump the damage you want to add flaming, frost and shock because those are the most efficient. If you are a 5th level Magnus that is 1 arcane point, and 1 spell of any level. If you are less than 5th level Magnus that is a 2nd level spell and 1 arcane point. You only get 1 2nd level spell as a 4th level magus so you'll need that 16 int to do this trick twice a day for +3d6 damage. Either way your BAB is going to be in the 7-8 range so you get 1 itterative attack, and 1 extra shot from Rapid Fire.
So we're looking at 1d12+5+1+3d6 x 3 possible attacks.
Lets mention attack bonus here. Jaei's build above would have BAB 7+5(dex)+1(focus)+1(PB)+1(enchantment)-2(rapid fire)= +13/+13/+8. Good for a single musket (or riffle).
However, when using 2 pistols, add in -4(two weapon) and add an extra attack at base and itterative so it becomes +9/+9/+9/+4/+4. The primary attacks will hit most creatures but the itterative attacks will miss most CL 9 creatures unless they happen to be huge and slow.
And lets talk resource consumption. The Spellslinger's Magic Bullet ability specifies 1 barrel. That means sacrificing a spell will most definitely only cover 1 gun no matter how optimistic you want to be. The Magus' arcane pool ability says weapon. The entire Magus build assumes only 1 bonded object. If the GM was being exceedingly lenient he might allow both bonded weapons to be affected, but my reading says 1 of them gets affected, but I'd allow you to use it twice to affect both bonded weapons. If the GM is being very strict he might declare you only get 1 bonded weapon for the Eldritch Archer since that is literally what its says.
Either way, at 10th level you're looking at only being able to do your gun tricks for (5/2+int mod) rounds and 1st and 2nd level spell slots. So figure...5 fights per day if you use 1 gun? (and the fights only last 10 rounds), or 2 fights a day if you use 2 guns? Less if you are a 4th level Magus. You really need that 5th level to bump its enhancement ability.
Mainly if the GM says it takes 1 arcane point to buff 2 pistols, you're build is good. If he says 2 points (and 2 swift actions), its bad and you should go for a single weapon.
rules as written you can't use Arcane Pool on more than one weapon at a time, so one musket is much better than two pistols.
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