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I am making a slayer bounty hunter, and the game is starting at level 4. He's got a Dex build, and I've given him Agile Maneuvers to supplement his Dirty Trick attempts. At level 4, I have given him the Underhanded Tricks rogue talent from Blood of Shadows so when he blinds with his dirty trick, the enemy can't undo it the first round after it is done. In these early levels, the tactic for live capture is this:
1) If initiative is won, charge and dirty trick in place of a sneak attack to blind. Otherwise, straight up dirty trick.
2) With a free hand, draw a dan bong for the +2 bonus to grapple checks. Follow up with a grapple check, which thanks to the blinded condition has a great chance of succeeding and does not provoke attacks of opportunity.
3) Pin and then tie up. Proceed to apply manacles, iron mask, etc. for apprehension.
I realize that a more effective tactic would be to knock the person out with repeated sneak attacks/dirty trick blinding, but for story reasons my character prefers his captives to be conscious so he doesn't have to physically carry them if he can afford to. Plus, I want to justify that level 5 archetype class feature substitution Submission Hold when it eventually pops up, and grappling is circumstantially useful against spellcasters anyway. I want to be able to have optimized, capable options.
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Ok, so the question. First, this:
When you attempt to perform a combat maneuver, make an attack roll and add your CMB in place of your normal attack bonus. Add any bonuses you currently have on attack rolls due to spells, feats, and other effects. These bonuses must be applicable to the weapon or attack used to perform the maneuver. The DC of this maneuver is your target’s Combat Maneuver Defense. Combat maneuvers are attack rolls, so you must roll for concealment and take any other penalties that would normally apply to an attack roll.
With this in mind, would my weapon attack bonus from Studied Target apply to grapple checks using a dan bong, a weapon that specifically has the grapple quality? Because if so, my bonus to grapple checks would be CMB + 2 from the weapon + studied target bonus, which is really damn good.
Neat. Thanks.
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Dan bong is a trap, it gives you a +2 to grapple, at the expense of a -4 to grapple for not having both hands free.
Humanoid creatures without two free hands attempting to grapple a foe take a –4 penalty on the combat maneuver roll.
Studied Target applies just fine without using a weapon though.
Dan bong is a trap, it gives you a +2 to grapple, at the expense of a -4 to grapple for not having both hands free.
Humanoid creatures without two free hands attempting to grapple a foe take a –4 penalty on the combat maneuver roll.Studied Target applies just fine without using a weapon though.
Grapple itself is a trap. You cannot perform any action which requires two hands while grappling. Since you cannot use both hands you take a -4 to grapple checks.
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I'm not using one hand to hit with the dan bong. I'm using both hands to grapple with the dan bong. I'm gonna say the spirit of the game beats rules lawyering in this situation. Doesn't make sense that a tool that enhances an action in the real world would overall hamper your attempts to do the same thing in a fictional one.
In any case, my question was answered so... thanks for the input.
bit of necro, but had a player who asked about this dan bong weapon.
i looked and the words of the item seem to strongly show that even though you wield the dan bong it is still not considered taking up your hands for grappling's '2 free hands' rule.
from the information "..held in the hands to enhance unarmed martial techniques.." = if it enhance the unarmed(unarmed = free hands, no?) fighting it shouldn't count as less then it now, should it?
btw 'hands' - as far as i know of this weapon, when used in grappling and such you use one with two hands to apply the pressure. so for my players question of two handing 2 of them for double the bonus i went with a no.
Grapple itself is a trap. You cannot perform any action which requires two hands while grappling. Since you cannot use both hands you take a -4 to grapple checks.Dan bong is a trap, it gives you a +2 to grapple, at the expense of a -4 to grapple for not having both hands free.
Humanoid creatures without two free hands attempting to grapple a foe take a –4 penalty on the combat maneuver roll.Studied Target applies just fine without using a weapon though.
ಠ_ಠ