I did a cursory search and couldn't find anything. So I apologize if this has come up before.
So, I'm looking at the feat "Hand’s Autonomy" which basically lets your possessed hand act independently on your turn in a limited fashion. One of the things the hand can do is
The hand can make a single melee or ranged attack with a light or one-handed weapon as a full-round action.
Since there are no other details about how this attack is treated I'm curious. What all would it get?
I assume it gets your base attack and strength mod. Would it get to make use of feats like weapon finesse and power attack? Would it benefit from class abilities like sneak attack?
My thought is, you could get the vestigial arm discovery and apply possessed hand to that extra hand. Then with Hand's Autonomy you would be able to get an extra attack each round the benefits from sneak attack (assuming you're flanking or using some other method to make all of your attacks get SAD).
Hand's Autonomy only acts on your behalf when you are unable, such as the mentioned condition of being unconscious.
Combined with the mentioned stipulations of the Vestigial Arm not giving extra attacks, I see no way this working like you want it to.
Sorry.
Yeah, it can only act independently when your character is unconscious. So no extra attacks.
Also vestigial arms doesn't allow for extra attacks.
Yeah, I know vestigial arms by it's self doesn't grant you extra attacks. The wording on Hand's autonomy is where I was unclear.
The flavor text (which I realize isn't rules) reads
Your possessed hand can act independently.Then before the list of actions it just says
The hand can perform the following actions each turn on your initiative count.
It made me wonder if the text describing it being able to act when you're asleep or unconscious was just "it can also do things when you're asleep" or if it was trying to list the things it could do while you're asleep.
the vestigial arms ability seems to be amazingly worthless because it doesn't give you any additional actions. I saw Hand’s Autonomy and thought it might make it actually worthwhile.
Certainly the feats stack the way I specified and it would allow you to make use of the feats that chain off of Possessed Hand without actually having to give up one of your normal hands. However, there are ways of getting darkvision and/or a familiar with a lot less feat investment.
Vestigial arms isn't supposed to add any action economy. It's a first level power in a game where action economy is the most important thing. Adding extra actions is beyond its power level.
It's basically meant to make something a little easier, mostly by holding more items then you normally could.
Your interpretation of the Hand's Autonomy is out of order from how the very text in question is presented.
The ability for the possessed hand to act on your behalf whilst sleeping or unconscious is stated first.
It then says, when acting in this way, meaning when it is acting on your behalf whilst you are sleeping or unconscious, it can then do something from the list.
Reading the feat, line by line, in the order they are written, makes being asleep or unconscious a prerequisite for Hand's Autonomy to come into play.
It's meant to AoO someone trying to Coup de Grace you, or give you a potion to bring you above negative HP, slap you awake because someone stole your horse...
It's more for flavor than offensive capacity.
Plus, Vestigial Arm still states it does not give extra attacks. That is pretty self explanatory and really hard to argue with.
Your interpretation of the Hand's Autonomy is out of order from how the very text in question is presented.
The ability for the possessed hand to act on your behalf whilst sleeping or unconscious is stated first.
Not really, Including the flavor text the whole feat is 7 sentences long. The first mention of being unconscious doesn't occur until sentence 4. The first thing which is stated is that the feat reduces your penalties for two-weapon fighting and that it stacks with said feat.
Reading the feat, line by line, in the order they are written, makes being asleep or unconscious a prerequisite for Hand's Autonomy to come into play.
Well, in order of reading i get
"ok cool, my hand can act on it's own"
"...it reduces penalties when 2 weapon fighting?"
"...it can do things when I'm unconscious"
"...these are the things it can do on my turn, so wait is it just when I'm unconscious that it can do these things or is it all the time?"
It's meant to AoO someone trying to Coup de Grace you, or give you a potion to bring you above negative HP, slap you awake because someone stole your horse...It's more for flavor than offensive capacity.
and I have no problem with that. Since it does grant a benefit when two-weapon fighting it's not purely a fluff feat and it is certainly useful in specific circumstances.
Plus, Vestigial Arm still states it does not give extra attacks. That is pretty self explanatory and really hard to argue with.
Which is completely irrelevant. Haste for example does give me an extra attack. I could use a weapon held in my vestigial arm to make said attack. Honestly, you could remove vestigial arm completely from my question and it's unchanged.
I don't know where you are getting "Ok, cool, my hand can act on its own" first in this sequence.
The first sentence in this feat's listed benefits is talking about TWF penalties, and the reduction thereof.
Then it goes on to say, when you are unconscious...
D20pfsrd:
Prerequisite(s): Possessed Hand.
Benefit(s): You reduce the penalties for fighting with two weapons (including fighting with double weapons or when throwing weapons from each hand) by 2, to a minimum penalty of –1. This benefit stacks with the Two-Weapon Fighting feat. When you are unconscious, paralyzed, asleep, or stunned, your possessed hand can still act on your behalf in a limited fashion. The hand uses your statistics when performing any action in this manner. The hand can’t take attacks of opportunity, but can draw attacks of opportunity from actions it takes. The hand can perform the following actions each turn on your initiative count.
The hand can retrieve or pick up an item or weapon as a standard action.
The hand can attempt any of the following skill checks at a –4 penalty: Disable Device, Escape Artist, Heal, Sleight of Hand, or Use Magic Device.
The hand can knock you prone as a free action, and drag you while you’re prone at a speed of 5 feet as a full-round action.
The hand can perform any other action appropriate for a hand and an arm, such as pouring a held potion into your mouth or awakening you from a sleep spell.
The hand can make a single melee or ranged attack with a light or one-handed weapon as a full-round action.
If you're talking about the little summary statement before the prerequisites as listed, all feats have some stupid summary of what they do, and it's not part of the official benefits listed.
It is one sentence designed to lure the reader into reading the specifics of what the feat has to offer.
The hand can act independently of you... when you are unconscious...
Remember, this hand can be severed from your person and act on your behalf whilst you are unable to do so.
Your body, sans the possessed hand, is over there unconscious... your hand is crawling around attacking people, or disabling devices, or whatever is listed... but you are over there, unconscious.