Divine Power vs Divine Favor

[Balkoth]

I have a player who's wondering if Divine Power is a bit underpowered. See, the party consistently gets Haste and is level 10. This means Divine Power is more or less using a spell slot 3 levels higher for...10 temporary hit points. And a slightly easier time brute forcing a door I guess. Eventually (at level 12, 15, and 18) Divine Power scales up more but right now both give +3 luck attack and damage.

Again, sure, without ready access to Haste the extra attack would be extremely good...but from what I've seen parties usually have Haste active (both from a GMing side and then also from a campaign where I'm playing a level 12 bard -- I nearly always Haste + Bard Song the first round of combat).

It does seem a bit odd to have the spell be so good if there's no Haste but then barely better than a level 1 spell from levels 7-11 if Haste is present.

[Weables]

Thats more a comment on how powerful extra attacks are than anything else. Yes, the power of the spell varies wildly with what other buffs exist, but thats a good thing. it means that not every character will want the same buffs, because not every party does have access to haste (my experience has my groups consistently missing an arcanist if i dont play) so your situation may not be the situation for everyone, remember.

Its just how the system is built, with extra attacks being that powerful, that this spell, and haste, and any other way to get them all tend to be immensely powerful. and therefore cant ever stack

[blahpers]

You still get the bonus to various rolls as well.

In any case, saying a spell is underpowered because you're already using a different spell that overlaps with it is a bit silly. Not every character is constantly under haste. The next step in this logic is to say haste is useless because your party is already under haste. : )

[Cevah]

Balkoth wrote:

I have a player who's wondering if Divine Power is a bit underpowered. See, the party consistently gets Haste and is level 10. This means Divine Power is more or less using a spell slot 3 levels higher for...10 temporary hit points. And a slightly easier time brute forcing a door I guess. Eventually (at level 12, 15, and 18) Divine Power scales up more but right now both give +3 luck attack and damage.

Why are you using Divine Power when Haste is active? Save it for when you have a combat without haste. Or do you have so many Haste spells available that you have it for every battle? When you have Haste, use Divine Favor ans save the slots. Or even a quickened Divine Favor.

Blessings of Fervor is also a good compliment for Haste, and helps the whole party.

/cevah

[Kayerloth]

And Haste has that no two of which can be further apart than 30ft clause. Maybe I had impatient companions but I seem to always have at least one who would be more than 30ft from everyone when playing my Loremaster.

And one of my characters, who could cast Divine Favor and Divine Power often found himself well beyond 30ft from the rest of the party since he was also the scout/archer for the group with the Travel domain as well.