I've looked all over the place and I can't seem to find a definite answer, I was hoping one of you is more knowledgeable.
So, if I have a Silver Raven flying around and someone kills it (in animal form) then how much health does it have when I re-summon it?
According to the rules I can just pick it up and throw it again, so I always assumed it came back at full health but now I'm not so sure...
So far as I can tell you are correct, it would come back at full health. The Silver Raven is one of the few figurines that lets you use it off and on during the week until it's duration is used up.
Other figurines such as say the golden lions would be unusable again until a week had passed. If the raven didn't come back at full health, then neither would the lions and that seems excessive. Since they use command words it would require a standard action to turn it back into a raven, plus I assume it would just turn into a statue where ever it got killed. If it got killed 100ft up in the air, the statue may not survive the fall.
Thank you for answering Mr. Kailas!
Does anyone else have a conflicting opinion? Or perhaps have a rule you can quote to weigh in one way or another?
What is the general consensus on this topic?
The Cheat Death ability of the Raven Master Ranger says that the figurine cannot be animated until he regains spells, so for him at least, it looks like death makes the Raven take a nap for the night to be used again the next day.
right at the top of the Figurine of Wondrous Power(FoWP) description before any specific item.
If a figurine of wondrous power is broken or destroyed in its statuette form, it is forever ruined. All magic is lost, its power departed. If slain in animal form, the figurine simply reverts to a statuette that can be used again at a later time." *grin*
All of the figurines(FoWP) have Requirement:Animate Objects. As a magic item they run off that spell and it is recast with each activation. As per the spell they gain HPs when the spell is cast, so each animation is 'new'.
Damage taken in animal form does not translate to the statue form unless it says so in the item description.
BTW as they are not summoned the title is incorrect.
That is an excellent analysis Mr. Azothath.
Still, GM's won't like this ruling if people start making Companion Figurine's with the Protector archetype that can't die and can instantly recover health.
On a side note, I was also rather leery at the word 'Summoned' initially but could not think of a more appropriate word that wouldn't take up much space...
I agree that this is not a magical summons but if you go by the English definition for summon, (A call by an authority to appear, come, or do something), then you could also say that the title is technically correct as you are calling the creature to do something.
Lockewood wrote: That is an excellent analysis Mr. Azothath.
Still, GM's won't like this ruling if people start making Companion Figurine's with the Protector archetype that can't die and can instantly recover health.
On a side note, I was also rather leery at the word 'Summoned' initially but could not think of a more appropriate word that wouldn't take up much space...
I agree that this is not a magical summons but if you go by the English definition for summon, (A call by an authority to appear, come, or do something), then you could also say that the title is technically correct as you are calling the creature to do something.
thank you.
It's a GM's job to control his home game. Making a FoWP is a high level task and characters would have to research if such a figurine were possible.
These are legacy items back from the AD&D days. Rules and terminology were far looser in those halcyon days of our innocent youth. Still they are animate objects at their core and not summoned monsters. A writer took liberties with a black panther which is fine as you wouldn't have sympathy for an animated object as you would for a lone hurt loyal creature on the astral plane who is just serving her master...
It actually isn't too difficult.
Simply take the Companion Figurine feat which lets the raven act as a familiar. Then exchange its base abilities for the Protector Archetype letting it use a constant form of Shield Other.
In one of my games I might allow it because I like to encourage creative thinking and solutions. (I love traps, guile, and tactics. As such, so do my monsters...)
However, I think this is PFS legal. So for a feat and 3000ish gold, their character's can take half damage most of the time.
I enjoy such outside-the-box thinking, but I don't think the people at Pathfinder Society will appreciate it if this works...
Lockewood wrote: {paraphrased} a) Companion Figurine feat, silver raven
b) Protector Archetype letting it use a constant form of Shield Other.
... I think this is PFS legal. So for a feat and 3000ish gold, their character's can take half damage most of the time...
almost... the statue form cuts off some familiar powers (such as being in your square or touching) and thus Protector Archtype grants nothing in that form.
Companion Figurine (PFS okay) {lol, writer makes same mistake stating the animal is summoned}
The figurine has the standard abilities of a familiar or animal companion of its type, plus additional abilities related to its figurine type (see below). The main advantage of this is that if your familiar or companion is killed in creature form, it merely reverts to statue form and can be used again later. The following standard figurines are available as animal companions (C) or familiars (F)....
Silver Raven (C, F): ... treated as a ... raven familiar ... not its hardness when in animal form. 3800gp 24 hrs per week, or doubled (see below) to 2 uses of 24hrs per scenario (6 days). There are scenarios that last longer... Also the usage limits you to 2 familiars (worth of HPs) per scenario. Putting away the familiar and bringing it back doesn't reset the hit points within a usage. Yeah, there was a 'gotcha', spell charges in a can and each one is an activation.
While the figurine is active, you and the active figurine gain all the normal benefits of having a companion creature; for example, a wizard with a silver raven familiar gains a +3 bonus on Appraise checks, the raven can speak one language, and so on. While the figure is inactive, you gain none of these benefits but are not otherwise hampered by its inert state (as if the creature were out of range but not dead). The usable duration of the companion figurine doubles... actually the activations/charges/uses doubles in the examples (more for the errata list) but that's actually better!
Protector (PFS okay)
Loyal Bodyguard - Famlr gains Bodyguard, Combat Rflx, This replaces alertness and improved evasion. Familiar and master need to be in same square.
Shield Master - 5th level {familiar granting class}, shield other effect, This replaces deliver touch spells and speak with animals of its kind. Familiar & master must be touching.
Able Defender - 11th level {familiar granting class}, Famlr gains In Harms Way and Master's normal max HP This replaces spell resistance.
in a home game I think the time restriction is going to hit home more often as time is more strictly tracked.
The wizard will have to start with a raven (or animal) and then take the feat later when he has the spare 3800gp (and fame in PFS) to buy the raven. The raven has Weapon Finesse to trade out. The wizard is giving up familiar wand usage(Impv'd Famil) and some action economy.
How does this compare to an Aegis of Recovery(1500gp), cracked pearly white spindle ioun stone regen 1/hr(3400gp), tourmaline sphere ioun stone +2 Con vs Death(1000gp), Amulet of Spell Mastery +6 SplLvls/day (bond obj 11000gp)
In PFS it's possible to acquire a Soulbound Doll (construct) as a familiar and do the same thing, but you really lose out on wand usage.
Another exemplary analysis on your part Mr. Azothath, thank you for taking an interest!
48 hours a week isn't too bad, even in a home game, considering you probably won't have the thing active while sleeping, traveling, or in town.
Rather than a Wizard I would suggest an Eldritch Guardian use this method.
Furthermore, the Protector archetype isn't the only interesting way to use this feature. You could for instance use the thing as fuel for Vampiric Touch spells or anything else that uses health as an exchange for some other commodity.
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End Note: I fear I've taken us all off topic. So is it pretty much decided that a Figurine will return at full health every time it's 'summoned', *smile* in the dictionary sense of the word that is, regardless of how long has past since it's being damaged in creature form?
If anyone has a conflicting opinion then please, speak now or forever hold your peace.
jeez, I'm gonna open up an editing service and eliminate some errors pre-press!
I prorated the usage to 8hrs per day.
an FAQ covers peeps that don't get a familiar... they're cut off. *hmm... can't find a direct FAQ statement, could be wrong!*
Honestly IMO Familiars are not worth it. They die off past 11th level from collateral or incoming damage and then their stuff is unattended, saves(probably fails)... gets ugly then you have to pay to get another...
CRB Character Advancement, Multiclassing Note that there are a number of effects and prerequisites that rely on a character’s level or Hit Dice. Such effects are always based on the total number of levels or Hit Dice a character possesses, not just those from one class. The exception to this is class abilities, most of which are based on the total number of class levels that a character possesses of that particular class.
Wizard Class, Arcane bond At 1st level, wizards form a powerful bond with an object or a creature. This bond can take one of two forms: a familiar or a bonded object. A familiar is a magical pet that enhances the wizard’s skills and senses and can aid him in magic, while a bonded object is an item a wizard can use to cast additional spells or to serve as a magical item. Once a wizard makes this choice, it is permanent and cannot be changed.
as a Familiar is a class ability, it requires levels in a class that grants the class ability. Sounds like circular logic but there you have it.
I didn't find a direct FAQ 8^| but...
CRB, having a class feature only class grants class features. A class ability is a class feature.
CRB, Improved Familiars ...To that end, you can always substitute your effective wizard level for the purpose of determining your familiar’s abilities for “arcane spellcaster level” to determine the available improved familiars for your character. In general, you can take Improved Familiars for class-granted variant familiars like... feats are not listed as an exception or option. One can easily extend this to a basic Familiar.
PFS limits familiar's powers when not in the 'active' pet role.
PFS trading feats on familiars only Extra Slot is free, have to pay & retrain for others.
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