Golembane Scarab and Caraytid Columns

[MulberryContessa]

Hello hello! I'm running an AP where a player has a golembane scarab and the characters are about to encounter Advanced quickling caryatid columns waiting to ambush them in statue form.

Are these things golems? I think the answer will make a big difference between whether they successfully ambush the characters or not and I'm a little confused by the wording in the description of caryatid columns.

"Caryatid columns are the lesser cousins of true golems, constructs created by spellcasters to guard objects or areas."

Does that mean they're not golems and the scarab wouldn't work?

As a secondary question: I see that they have the feat Spring Attack and a Special Attack called Rapid Attacks. Both of these let them dart around and attack, can they be used together?

Thank you so much!

[VRMH]

They're not Golems. They're called out as being "related" to them, but that's not enough.

[Pizza Lord]

Agreed. They are not a type of golem for the purposes of a golembane scarab.

I cannot find a listing for quickling caryatid columns, so I can only assume you are referring to Rapid Attacks which is an 11th level mobile fighter ability that lets you pair a move with a full attack action. Both Spring Attack and rapid attack both use full-round actions, so they can't be combined (rapid attack uses a full-attack action, but that's almost the same thing).

Spring attack lets you move and attack (and move again), and rapid attack lets you make a full-attack (all your attacks, though at your 2nd highest base attack bonus) and still move, so you'd have to choose one or the other. Obviously, rapid attack works better for creatures with multiple attacks and Spring Attack is better for creatures with only one, though it also prevents attacks of opportunity from your target, so it's also good against creatures with reach.

That's all assuming you are referring to that version of Rapid Attack and not something else or something specific in a creature's statblock that says it does something else.

[thorin001]

I would say they count. The fluff text lists them as a lesser form of golem just like drakes are listed as lesser forms of dragons. More importantly, caryatid columns have the Magic Immunity property which is unique to golems.

[Diego Rossi]

To detect golems with the scarab yo need to concentrate. it is not automatic.
If the character is constantly concentrating on the scarab detection he is distracted for all other perception check, stealth and so on.

"Caryatid columns are the lesser cousins of true golems" mean that the Caryatid columns aren't true golems. The scarab detect "any golem" so it is possible that it detect "lesser cousins of true golems". As a golem subtype don't exist there is no "true" answer. As it is a low cost item that neutralize a powerful defensive ability I would limit the golembane scarab effect to true golems, but that is a matter of taste, not rules.

[Pizza Lord]

thorin001 wrote:

I would say they count. The fluff text lists them as a lesser form of golem just like drakes are listed as lesser forms of dragons. More importantly, caryatid columns have the Magic Immunity property which is unique to golems.

Possibly, but by that logic you could say that a paramedic, an orderly, and a nurse are a lesser form of doctor. Therefore they count as a doctor and a security guard is a lesser type of law enforcement officer and a deputy is a lesser form of a sheriff, ergo a security guard is a deputy and is a sheriff. Similarly, if I get a bonus against officers, I can claim an enlisted man is just a lesser form of an officer.

Certainly, a bonus against soldiers would apply to all, but I think golem is not an encompassing description, but a more restrictive one, meaning, if I get a bonus against constructs, that does apply to golems but a bonus against golems doesn't apply to all constructs. The trouble here is determining what counts as a golem but I think in the case of the wording for the scarab (which is a legacy item) it was intended to refer to 'true golems' which is a term used in the game (for things such as the shield guardian variant, which used to be a separate form of golem previously).

I would probably restrict it to the golems listed in the golem page (and of course it's all a GM's call for their game). Otherwise, it opens a lot of potential doors for things like ivory batons and feats like Protector of the People to be able be able to cherry pick everything. ("Well an animated skeleton is really just a lesser form of a bone golem That has animate dead as a potential requirement too!"). With the obvious notation that a caryatid column or a skeleton would probably be below the feat's required CR of 5.

Causing more confusion is the fact that the OPs question is referring to what seems to be custom or hard-to-find specific creations and that there is a difference between a caryatid column (CR 3) and a caryatid golem (CR 11) which is actually a modified stone golem. The two do have very similar powers (the column was made to be a weaker version), but I don't believe the column was intended to count as a golem, as opposed to specific construct with stone-like defenses.

[Gray Warden]

Diego Rossi wrote:

As a golem subtype don't exist there is no "true" answer.

While it is true that there is no Golem subtype, the Golem category does exist, and it seems to include all those creatures with "Golem" in their name (duh!). Apart from the name, such constructs also have in common their own rules for upgrades, and a sort of "archetype", the Shield Guardian, that can be applied only to them.

So to me it makes sense not to include Cariatids in the Golem category.

[MulberryContessa]

Thank you so much, everyone!

Yeah, it's a CR 12 monster from the Shattered Star AP. That same AP gave them the scarab, but that was way back in the first module and this is the fifth. I agree that it'd be a pretty powerful effect for such a low cost item, but I certainly didn't want to seem unfair.

And thank you for the help with Rapid Actions and Spring Attack too!

They're going to fight these things in just a few hours and I'm crossing my finger that the inevitable annoyance they feel with how hard these things are washes away into satisfaction when they finally break them into little pieces. That said! Anytime I worry about encounters that's almost always when the players absolutely steamroll them and it turns out I shouldn't have worried at all. Maybe the scarab won't even factor in and they'll all just got insanely good perception rolls to notice that they're not like the other statues.

Thank you again! You were super helpful.