Touch Injection on allies.

[kinkoid]

Touch injection says you can administer a potion or infusion with "a mere touch" and goes on to say that it requires a melee touch attack to apply it to an opponent. What kind of action is it to apply it to an ally?

If you had two prepared, and were using 2-weapon fighting, could you apply 2 per round to an ally? I was thinking my 9th level investigator could carry around a couple of Cure Serious Wounds infusions as injections.

[Zarius]

It's a touch attack, regardless of who you apply it to.. By the fact that you have to 'drain' the potion or extract when you actually cast the spell, no, you could not prep two. It CAN be done as part of an iteration chain, though.

[kinkoid]

Zarius wrote:

It's a touch attack, regardless of who you apply it to.. By the fact that you have to 'drain' the potion or extract when you actually cast the spell, no, you could not prep two. It CAN be done as part of an iteration chain, though.

So I could not prepare two CSW and two Touch injection infusions, and use the two touch injections to store the two CSW?

Also, why does it specify that it is a melee touch attack for an opponent, if it is the same for an ally?

[Zarius]

Because it's assumed that your ally will intentionally allow you to touch them. :P Just like they intentionally let you touch them and they intentionally fail their will save when the cleric casts the spell.

Teeeeechnically, the spell makes no stipulation about one-at-a-time, so arguably you COULD, but I (personally) would end up treating it as a secondary type of 'holding the charge'. It wouldn't interfere with other 'charges' being held, but I probably wouldn't allow you to intentionally bypass the clear RAI of one healing per round per healing character.

[Zarius]

This is really a question you should ask your GM. Since you ARE blowing TWO spells to use two healing potions, they might let you pass with it.

[Diego Rossi]

It is a form of "holding a charge" and you can't hold more than a charge at a time.
AFAIK, barring several abilities that allow you to turn normal attacks in touch attacks, it is not possible to make iterative touch attacks.
At least it is not possible with touch attacks that are granted by spells.
To benefit from iterative attacks you have to hold the charge and then make normal attacks.
On the other hand you can touch up to 8 willing creatures in a round using a full round action.

[Joesi]

There's nothing in the description that says you can have more than one copy of the spell active at a time, and the default is that spells are active only once per creature or else overwrite.

edit: If you wanted to use two at once, you could use Poisoner's Gloves granted, it's only once per day.

[Azothath]

A touch attack defines the mechanic used to hit(touch) the target. Target can be foe or ally or neutral party, doesn't matter. If you ask the target, 'can I touch you?' and he says 'yes' and the GM agrees, then you touch without having to roll.

[Azothath]

Hmmm, touch injection as a spell would allow as many as you could cast simultaneously(overlapping durations). Be aware though that targets are in control of 'imbibed' potions via this method as per the brew potion feat.

You cannot use a touch attack with two weapon fighting. The GM would have to allow a variance from RAW.

[kinkoid]

My understanding is that you can have multiple copies of a spell active on yourself if they have differing effects (e.g., Resist Energy), so it could be argued that multiple castings of Touch Injection would be legal if each stored a different infusion.

Touch attacks are allowed for iterative attacks, correct? Also, the spell could be cast on a familiar via Share Spells?

[Azothath]

kinkoid wrote:

My understanding is that you can have multiple copies of a spell active on yourself if they have differing effects (e.g., Resist Energy), so it could be argued that multiple castings of Touch Injection would be legal if each stored a different infusion.

Touch attacks are allowed for iterative attacks, correct? Also, the spell could be cast on a familiar via Share Spells?

1) Touch Injection will work on new identical potions/poisons/etc every time as the potions are separate and unique, aka 50 + 50gp. It's not holding a charge or the same effect as different potions/poisons/etc are consumed each time into a magical sack (somewhere). Consider Summon Monster 1 (eagle), Hypnotism, or Color Spray. Summon Monster 1 cast twice consecutively creates two eagles rather than renew the duration on the first. Hypnotism cast consecutively would allow you to attempt to implant two suggestions. Color Spray cast on stunned opponents (from Color Spray) calls for new saves and starts the progression again.

The game is purposefully nebulous at times so GM's can make calls one way or the other. That's why usage history and game style are important as those affect GM interpretations. It is a GM call to say it will not work.

2) yes, a high BAB could iteratively touch. Makes bad touch clerics rather nasty if they are holding a charge.

3) via Share Spells you could let your familiar (aka squishy friend that costs gold to replace) absorb the potion.

In a practical manner casters are expending a 3rd level spell to trade a weapon attack for a touch attack or at best turning a full round action into a standard touch attack. I know some people think they've found something but it's not a very good trade off. Consider carefully my above warning about potions. It ruined my thoughts on touch injection for Gaseous Form (which is an AWESOME debuff). Poisons are expensive for their effect.

alternative; reach metamagic (at +1) on Cure Light Wounds, False Life, Bear's CON, Shocking Grasp. Then there's Long Arm.

[kinkoid]

I was mostly thinking of using it for infusions, as a quicker way to buff myself or others. Like having a tumor familiar hit me with Targeted Bomb Admixture right before my alchemist unleashes a full round of bombs, or tapping my Paladin buddy with Barkskin and Displacement in the first round of a big fight.